From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: John Hendy Subject: Re: Org expert mode? Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 08:14:08 -0600 Message-ID: References: <87vczre1eb.fsf@altern.org> <87hbbbe148.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=41333 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Pxgd1-0000Zh-Q7 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 09:14:13 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Pxgcz-0008Lj-K0 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 09:14:10 -0500 Received: from mail-bw0-f41.google.com ([209.85.214.41]:40407) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Pxgcz-0008LZ-Ez for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 09:14:09 -0500 Received: by bwz17 with SMTP id 17so2105787bwz.0 for ; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 06:14:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Greg Troxel Cc: Bastien , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 6:38 AM, Greg Troxel wrote: > > Bastien writes: > >> Bastien writes: >> >>> So I naturally thought of something like an "Org Expert mode": when >>> turned off, the UI would *not* give access to complex features >> >> More precisely: the UI would not _display_ complex features, which will >> still be available anyway (of course). > > I started using org only last summer, and found it a little daunting, > but reading the intro manual was easier than I thought. =C2=A0There are l= ots > of complicated features, but I found it entirely easy to ignore > exporting, clocking, and many others. > I completely agree. I was learning emacs concurrently (started on emacs specifically for org) and just ignored everything that wasn't essential. Just navigating files worked. For example, as much as I wanted to learn all the shortcuts for forward/backward one char/word/line/para/heading... the arrows worked and I actually got stuff done. > Looking back, the hardest thing for a new person to learn is the > keybindings for scheduling, priorities, etc. in both the org mode view > and agenda view. > > I don't see where having a mode to turn on and off would help any of > this. =C2=A0I can sort of see the point about the export help, but I type > "C-e C-h h" so fast that it barely blinks by. =C2=A0(Were I still on dial= up I > would be cranky.) I'm prone to agree here as well, but maybe it's because I never really used the UI. I just learned the keystrokes as I figured that was the end goal anyway. I'd be open to hearing from other "noobs" or those more recently acquainted whether *they* would find something like this useful. If they are like Greg and I, perhaps learning/usage isn't very hindered by having extras laying around since we just tend to ignore them and use what we learn as we learn it. If anything, having recently started using sunrise-commander, I'm almost more inclined to suggest something like sunrise-x-buttons as more helpful. Provide a cheatsheet for what *is* there rather than hiding what we think new users won't use/care about.[1] > > Overall, I suggest enumerating what changes ought to be made for > non-expert mode, and then seeing if the complexity of having a mode is > really worth it, rather than inventing a mechanism and then looking for > ways to apply it. > Yes -- a clear list would be fantastic. [1] http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Sunrise_Commander#toc2 Best regards, John