From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Dov Grobgeld Subject: Re: Orgmode and Unicode characters Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 22:12:45 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4cfcf421.0e3f970a.5d5c.fffff5c2@mx.google.com> <87tyiruex2.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1503786332==" Return-path: Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=49791 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PPhQW-0005MZ-IE for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2010 15:12:49 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PPhQU-000120-Um for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2010 15:12:48 -0500 Received: from mail-qy0-f169.google.com ([209.85.216.169]:49130) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PPhQU-00011w-Oh for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2010 15:12:46 -0500 Received: by qyk7 with SMTP id 7so3825012qyk.0 for ; Mon, 06 Dec 2010 12:12:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87tyiruex2.fsf@gmail.com> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Eric Schulte Cc: emacs-orgmode --===============1503786332== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6408980ea077c0496c3828f --0016e6408980ea077c0496c3828f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The way I see it, within org-mode you wouldn't have to change anything in your input, but C-c C-c or other hot keys would do the change automatically= . But I really don't mind if the underlying buffer stays the same, but only the display changes. Secondly, typing Unicode characters is pretty easy in emacs through its input modes. I have recently working on a special input mode for the key-starved N900 keyboard and it is really simple through quail. For box characters, you may e.g. use input mode rfc1345 through C-\ rfc1345, and then type: &dr&hh&dl &vv &vv &ur&hh&ul" which results in: =E2=94=8C=E2=94=80=E2=94=90 =E2=94=82 =E2=94=82 =E2=94=94=E2=94=80=E2=94=98 Obviously the display of these fancy characters is only syntactic suger, bu= t so is the use of font colors in the buffer. Regards, Dov On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 16:58, Eric Schulte wrote: > My only worry on this front is that I know how to type "|" and "-" for > tables, and how to type "*" for headings, but I don't have an easy way > to type utf8 characters. > > If Org-mode starts using exotic utf8 characters which can not easily be > typed from outside of Org-mode then it loses some of the "it's all plain > text" appeal. > > I agree with Darlan that something using Emacs display functionality > (like used by org-pretty-entities) could be preferable because it would > preserve the underlying text. > > Best -- Eric > > Darlan Cavalcante Moreira writes: > > > If changing the actual character in the file is be the best option (may= be > > it could cause problems for the exporters), then an approach similar to > > org-pretty-entities could be used for this. > > > > -- > > Darlan > > > > At Mon, 6 Dec 2010 11:19:55 +0200, > > Dov Grobgeld wrote: > >> > >> Even though this announcement looks very cool, this again reminded me = of > >> something I've been thinking off when using orgmode. And that is the u= se > of > >> unicode characters. With the latest versions of emacs that support > unicode > >> and with rich fonts such as DejaVu Monospace, it is as easy to use > unicode > >> characters as ascii. What I was thinking of is that the current ascii > >> graphics of e.g. tables could automatically be switched to box drawing > >> characters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box-drawing_characters) when > >> pressing C-c or Tab. Other characters that could be used are automatic > >> replacement of leading asterisks to various bullets. Each indentation > level > >> could be given a different bullets. E.g. "*"=3D=3D=E2=96=B8, "**"=3D= =3D=E2=97=8F, etc. I'm sure > that > >> arrows and various brackets may also be useful for various contexts. > >> > >> Of course the use of these characters would be configurable and would = be > >> turned off automatically for buffers that are not UTF-8 encoded. > >> > >> Perhaps I'll one day learn the inner workings of org-mode sufficiently > to do > >> this myself, but if there is someone who meanwhile wants to pick up th= e > >> idea, you're welcome! > >> > >> Regards, > >> Dov > >> > >> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 09:05, Nathan Neff > wrote: > >> > >> > Much easier to read, and I love the nesting/indenting of > >> > sub-headings. > >> > > >> > http://nateneff.com/ - Need to understand > org-mode-clockreport-rules.html< > http://nateneff.com/org-mode-clockreport-rules.html> > >> > > >> > --Nate > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > >> > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > >> > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > >> > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > --0016e6408980ea077c0496c3828f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The way I see it, within org-mode you wouldn't have to= change anything in your input, but C-c C-c or other hot keys would do the = change automatically. But I really don't mind if the underlying buffer = stays the same, but only the display changes.

Secondly, typing Unicode characters is pretty easy in emacs through its= input modes. I have recently working on a special input mode for the key-s= tarved N900 keyboard and it is really simple through quail. For box charact= ers, you may e.g. use input mode rfc1345 through C-\ rfc1345, and then type= :

&dr&hh&dl
&vv &vv
&ur&hh&ul"=

which results in:
=E2=94=8C=E2=94=80=E2=94=90
=E2=94= =82 =E2=94=82
=E2=94=94=E2=94=80=E2= =94=98
Obviously the display of these fancy characters is only sy= ntactic suger, but so is the use of font colors in the buffer.

Regar= ds,
Dov

On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 16:58, Eric Schulte <schulte.eric@gmail.com> wrote= :
My only worry on this front is that I know how to type "|" and &q= uot;-" for
tables, and how to type "*" for headings, but I don't have an= easy way
to type utf8 characters.

If Org-mode starts using exotic utf8 characters which can not easily be
typed from outside of Org-mode then it loses some of the "it's all= plain
text" appeal.

I agree with Darlan that something using Emacs display functionality
(like used by org-pretty-entities) could be preferable because it would
preserve the underlying text.

Best -- Eric

Darlan Cavalcante Moreira <darcamo@= gmail.com> writes:

> If changing the actual character in the file is be the best option (ma= ybe
> it could cause problems for the exporters), then an approach similar t= o
> org-pretty-entities could be used for this.
>
> --
> Darlan
>
> At Mon, 6 Dec 2010 11:19:55 +0200,
> Dov Grobgeld <dov.grobgel= d@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Even though this announcement looks very cool, this again reminded= me of
>> something I've been thinking off when using orgmode. And that = is the use of
>> unicode characters. With the latest versions of emacs that support= unicode
>> and with rich fonts such as DejaVu Monospace, it is as easy to use= unicode
>> characters as ascii. What I was thinking of is that the current as= cii
>> graphics of e.g. tables could automatically be switched to box dra= wing
>> characters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box-drawing_charac= ters) when
>> pressing C-c or Tab. Other characters that could be used are autom= atic
>> replacement of leading asterisks to various bullets. Each indentat= ion level
>> could be given a different bullets. E.g. "*"=3D=3D=E2=96= =B8, "**"=3D=3D=E2=97=8F, etc. I'm sure that
>> arrows and various brackets may also be useful for various context= s.
>>
>> Of course the use of these characters would be configurable and wo= uld be
>> turned off automatically for buffers that are not UTF-8 encoded. >>
>> Perhaps I'll one day learn the inner workings of org-mode suff= iciently to do
>> this myself, but if there is someone who meanwhile wants to pick u= p the
>> idea, you're welcome!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dov
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 09:05, Nathan Neff <nathan.neff@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Much easier to read, and I love the nesting/indenting of
>> > sub-headings.
>> >
>> > http://nat= eneff.com/ =C2=A0 - Need to understand org-mode-clockreport-rules.html&= lt;http://nateneff.com/org-mode-clockreport-rules.html>
>> >
>> > --Nate
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.or= g
>> > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

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