From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: qTim Cross Subject: Re: org mode moves to GNU emacs core Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 22:52:52 +1000 Message-ID: <87zicl7uuy.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87injf1asi.fsf@mat.ucm.es> <87r2xyvv1q.fsf@gnu.org> <87d19hrkbv.fsf@mat.ucm.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44274) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dS0qj-0004zQ-0b for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Jul 2017 08:53:10 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dS0qf-0004jb-53 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Jul 2017 08:53:09 -0400 Received: from mailfilter1.une.edu.au ([129.180.1.41]:51139) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dS0qe-0004e8-JK for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Jul 2017 08:53:05 -0400 In-reply-to: <87d19hrkbv.fsf@mat.ucm.es> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" To: Uwe Brauer Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Just to throw my 2 cents in. While I can understand the benefits of being able to easily install the latest org package via elpa, I think there are some significant benefits to org being a part of core Emacs. I currently find three issues with the current situation which may be somewhat resolved if org was part of core emacs. 1. Problems with mixed versions. Currently, Emacs has org 8.x included in the distribution. This is despite 9.x being out before the release of 25.2. Something needs to be done to improve coordination and perhaps if it was part of the core, this would be more likely. At any rate, the current situation means you need to be very careful to ensure no org feature is loaded before the ELPA package is loaded or you will get odd behaviour and the symbol's value is void errors. 2. If you just want to load the ELPA version of org (not org-plus-contrib) it can be a real pain. You have to play around with package lists to ensure you actually get the right one. This can be a real hassle if you also use the use-package package as you will often get the older version bundled with Emacs if you don't have your package lists in the right order. 3. I would really like to see two completely separate packages rather than having org and org-plus-contrib. Currently, if you have packages which have org as a dependency and you have loaded org-plus-contrib rather than just org, you will end up with both. Not a big issue, unless your on a slow link as now you will download updates for both org and org-plus-contrib. (there is no 'cleverness' with ELPA dependency specifications - you cannot specify alternative dependencies). A lot will depend on when org becomes part f core. The trick will be to do it once development of org slows down. I've been using org for a long time now and have noticed that the rate of new features being added has slowed down. Much of the changes now is about improvement and refinement of the code base. I would imagine that at some point, things will become even more stable with fewer releases. This would be the point at which it would make sense to bring into core. The other advantage of being part of core is that updates and changes to Emacs will be integrated into org much better. We won't see situations where new versions of Emacs require a rush to update org. for the end user, this should create a much more stable org environment. Then of course, there will always be the option to run org straight from the git repository for those who really want the latest version. I find that once you have the path added to load-path, running from the git repo is not much more effort than installing the latest ELPA package. Uwe Brauer writes: >>>> "Bastien" == Bastien writes: > > > Hi Uwe, > > Uwe Brauer writes: > > >> I am not sure whether I understand that discussion in emacs dev > >> correctly. Will orgmode be moved into the GNU emacs try as it was done > >> with gnus? > > > for the record, I would be in favor of this. Why? > > > - Less installation headaches > > - Less maintainance and backward-compatibility headaches > > - Possibility of having etc/TODO in Emacs using org-mode > > - Attracting Org developers/contributors to Emacs repo > > > As a maintainer, I don't see any advantage of having Org > > maintained as an ELPA package. > > But the release cycles are very different, so in order to have always > the latest stable org package, I need to compile and install the whole > GNU emacs beast. I thought the whole idea of a package system is to > avoid this headache. -- Tim Cross