From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id xNY3Bzajm2CYIwEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 11:43:18 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id UFNaAjajm2DzUwAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 09:43:18 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7BE1627240 for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 11:43:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:46514 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lglOd-0004pm-G5 for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 12 May 2021 05:43:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52076) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lglNS-0004c8-1z for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 12 May 2021 05:42:02 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.14]:43841) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lglNM-0005Mp-FN for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 12 May 2021 05:42:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1620812512; bh=2zoE3VL2xJlk1RBFWjQ5jw0J96zYVv6oyOsj1+XiL6I=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:References:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date; b=bBoEmsbkg12xdQhtBgkCAnqso0UIFdtg6eEUN8X0EGYDxE5yxc90f7vQWQL61F8Uj nkskDMYHMcKYgXf1UMQzPLnTvMT2eg0Q+uEvNIpemi8kJBymFbVKVP6FoUmnAGFJ01 FnJ0ezZYEysxnca9jlQoSPD5zLChZwgij8F3180w= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from fluss ([84.165.17.25]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb006 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MlLA1-1lEpbh1RU5-00lfmj; Wed, 12 May 2021 11:41:52 +0200 References: <87im3qj092.fsf@iki.fi> <87mtt2jz4h.fsf@web.de> <87h7j9hu0l.fsf@web.de> User-agent: mu4e 1.4.15; emacs 28.0.50 From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" To: Arthur Miller Subject: Re: The fate of ditaa.jar (9.4.5.) 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Christopher Dimech , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1620812597; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=2zoE3VL2xJlk1RBFWjQ5jw0J96zYVv6oyOsj1+XiL6I=; b=VBaBqazoooSFNfky9O12vJe3Jz8WRufUKvQXGc6tw+0V4AhwoU3fupd5SwbJTd4CIgi03C rBRV6glaBh37EDzEuF+JQ+4Yf/G4MhKSAdtHi0p+LT7AmOIVwCAoBTShHOjXcpafW9aoik CraVDDeqt4Cbmn4wtP2odcPp0GaoVwgU2WQBhzQianEkFAnjFah+m/N2UfZLhDDIrOnbm3 Gj9mWsUTGG8DFZBNDt6UXHj4JHmgzxONgzlifc2VSekQYhD2fbgW5IZTguOs2vkU7qFxI9 lRxh7Nt7m0T33PrtVON0yAfcxXBqlJPKuwtKJKrE3EukSnMZgZOp3ME/5Fqh+w== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1620812597; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=OnrCXxUDSmVAf/sS679nX+726AGrJPBvRy9jny1TBSaWVLOQ1xLepfrOAmE66SO/lv6gw1 kePTpPG7egNdlJRcXevEWPxliPtjhaXcEDHCgK2k7ObBzBEyX0XyVmRQRsan5hOpajstdq Kq/u1NrVm9b0fzQBPelhhCnwoLY3K3tKyezTGoRxJNfH5808CO6T88LKt5VJKtbFEIhd5m PcDitt8Ye0EWYo2bLvkk517bxWB8E9ujlLDQL6W4PP40jpOwQfQ97rRRbBeaKMWZ6s0Y34 XexWgJSV2TtoDZtys0Xpdv9oZbbTN49EJ5T49K2wHt+PEXRG1Bk2OqYYwN8fHQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=web.de header.s=dbaedf251592 header.b=bBoEmsbk; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=web.de; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.25 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=web.de header.s=dbaedf251592 header.b=bBoEmsbk; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=web.de; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 7BE1627240 X-Spam-Score: -4.25 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: gNS4LOtLosKy --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Arthur Miller writes: > I don't think that would be the case. Java is considered unsafe software > so I wouldn't rely on older versions being pre-installed and avialable ev= erywhere. Java is not considered unsafe software =E2=80=94 not any more than any interpreted language. What=E2=80=99s unsafe are Java applets, but those are= not what ditaa uses. >> I would bundle the old version to keep old documents working (I do not >> want org-mode to be volatile software[1] that breaks existing documents >> with an update), but notify the user that a new version exists. > > Since you already have Java and ditaa installed on your computer, your > older documents won't get broken.=20 I have Java, but not ditaa, because Java is packaged in my distribution and ditaa is not. My build pipelines use ditaa as shipped with org-mode. Different from plantuml, there is no ditaa-runner to install as application. So unbundling ditaa breaks my documents when updating org-mode. The same for everyone else who used a standard ditaa-setup with org-mode. > By the way, how difficult is to download one file from the internet > (ditaa.jar) if you are an user? That=E2=80=99s not the point. The point is that every single user with a di= taa block has to do it. Ask the other way round: What is the benefit of removing ditaa from org? If you want to force most current org-ditaa users to unbreak their setup after update, there should be a significant tangible benefit. Best wishes, Arne =2D-=20 Unpolitisch sein hei=C3=9Ft politisch sein ohne es zu merken --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJEBAEBCAAuFiEE801qEjXQSQPNItXAE++NRSQDw+sFAmCbot8QHGFybmVfYmFi QHdlYi5kZQAKCRAT741FJAPD6/gHD/9rA1lydFcq7ArGq7s5cXi3CV2ggRGcdKz2 hYxrFrs6Xt9fYu58qm1zOM6UvH2c1/Latk7FBMVIZ0qo51Gm+8nSal+lTGgNAESW b4Yy7JOTJtS5/EwHQtMfws6qgVr3nKyxdhQFf/fFZcOCoSqh+uQANZQyEhVeaczI xATKzZwwcy7aH6CO7/lcfvaBG8z+GFF+BnAdzFR15V56Mu3N6cWU9KdU9C/wl/rJ Sy/AcBbkeA8MGps+4zXjk2wVbXiKZEOH6Gc5dp3cyxXYSH1g7WDLYrzwwtBBoG+A ylp4NdNYkJsgFKD5xOiIpiAuF6VO5kbZOZKbW1zpvQ00Ji5SX1u4VrT05qOeYdop xSS0M/lcCdBPdo5tU5PFdWd4P6uuy1WPWTtDrcqMtYYfD3afWHCKrQ03jBmvWidb D9ZJaI0c5QaN9g8nZcJG4kMe+z4ce7M/gCYO9hR4qRProrepTnFyvymKCTzP1NgT 8yHC7m3yEz2dv/JCN5SZy9SPY6NC3HgfAH56Q73pEad2kTWW28/Q/KF4IiDQze+5 mG5Jww1lk737E94YC5TTAX0RuiKX/+Lb0QTfUxTpxtJzEV4dGlQcpbIFJJ1EJwmP rUAikhnryUTxxjkNFBpLPreZn4maSkuLne/GoKZcs3JYmMdqMwte5DdO6zmPZwj2 PJ4JioYi3ojEBAEBCAAuFiEE3Si95tmHXKvOSosd3M8NswvBBUgFAmCbot8QHGFy bmVfYmFiQHdlYi5kZQAKCRDczw2zC8EFSDxhA/9PF4XunA0EEeTS/wOHRp8CjJl8 rcc1M0lbT1p5MLnF39PuXtSa8sVn9XvY0maDZNsNHMuAxcpnVCzOXpS9WFCuLH25 2O3rC/VKzx2l3QsSwShXrBT7+Io6eCO0sWaJk7n0AY+jHqT/08YLAKzyMCTs+6Aw jsuAzr9SOf/bzZE6kg== =Nhnf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--