From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms9.migadu.com with LMTPS id ODpyJeDwFmSIxQAASxT56A (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:24:16 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id GDA9JeDwFmSfTgEAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:24:16 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B104DFE7 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:24:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pdr80-0007i9-UF; Sun, 19 Mar 2023 07:23:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pdr7z-0007hi-8V for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Mar 2023 07:23:07 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pdr7w-0007xI-Ty for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Mar 2023 07:23:06 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25F5E240208 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:23:00 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1679224981; bh=q5REC4dOOvH21fX4kHhkjIlKYQ94VXID2ljf42o8xcE=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=IJXm33C9BrAeGLypz4Ob5n/JHhCKQZ7SSdAfWLt5ZK49oJMYxdSVpXZC7zHLi52JJ 64dBsVT5PCCu5CwIq/WrnjFuolC3+oERufL4jgZMSWhl8nlOsHKvT6m3rigjs7vpC0 OlmCdyLQ26ab1BLJE5JQ8Xl/KhIKkSacaYFYDjjbSboahgFAUsFp8rD2poBglCXW7g tz6Po2RmTGNw1nxXujeRO15rrPMvawoxMWNuG0dk1Svvv4pg6lz0mlT/lJ+eZVaqx6 ZOBURotLnvBidBvUVjSpX/VQMLPBZ+/Mk4R/A8/rN3hIGDfoDev97ihCYcHp8DnnDU gheBfZPKss2yQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Pfb833gXmz9rxS; Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:22:59 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Rudolf =?utf-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= Cc: Max Nikulin , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] org-manual.org: $n$-th is not math In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 11:24:53 +0000 Message-ID: <87zg89ugoq.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=IJXm33C9; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1679225055; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=NDZxyj8qP5adAffgu1vfNr5vICVfPhuZJO0Ez24mq4gqWIxydQSGLCS0NL7/AdGmeQZ3Wc Fv4jIh9crN5RttQX1KzdJbqEqRjT28bli1aM76cvkgnvRUwx94puz41bMa1oy8Ug5FVBI9 StI8bjjcZ4EWAOMbkyAs4bvlFaDk3UuiQT/OQ6nEgZtHr5J7IwLJGi23gBooDEBvam6yig 2/9WAFFJxNVVfpOpXKHRJaWDXnduHkxGRJ4OxiQ5axKEMbOzhxC44S+ZzvtKL0mxqFeK68 Ia8ykLgeYsaehL2LpSmvBN9iJy1+GhvZPBiEjh3BBFtWEPFn0Yy8bgMMk/18Dw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1679225055; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=1SRVT3DK+jjFNOkJ9Pm1WKijLBNmIIT+6lUldulp0yo=; b=M+D9vU2OvB7DH6nFsSo1huS7ytKYexhw0xc9+L37rCrTvjJ5+Eud2odZcBT91sZ3ByHa5l yUjLdj3tD0QWSOkHbftxuMj5Dc/+QMkTaQYrrpeyyhGsvM16+FmOK4BtGBYJrSb/owjB4d CqhU2/C2eC+Z5Nt6t3Jf0xcgp5kHJq0YlqR6bowoh+tZCoxkf05GeycMOTT99Cm0uxoLcF rnL7eT3NCTfQCSui26S/7JF8f+wm2A9X72O1JRoKK5w0EAmoXxrufvJl0vNHMaonTsjUhX /geGD9QIcAkQKytNFAYh77ekYwK8VW9Vn96ES5RwdC6S8oIrhI5wazXlwlGYbA== X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.77 X-Spam-Score: -3.77 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 4B104DFE7 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=IJXm33C9; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net X-TUID: jLl4W1GrLEK4 Rudolf Adamkovi=C4=8D writes: > The attempts were always rejected. So, just a "bummer". :) As I said in the linked message, supporting "-" will not solve the basic issue, which is with the Org syntax not being LaTeX. Intra-word markup, including $...$, requires workarounds. It is the trade-off we have to take. https://list.orgmode.org/87r18t7fc5.fsf@localhost >>> The problem with parsing is more than just supporting $i$-th and >>> similar. For example, AMS style guide explicitly advises against using >>> $i$-th in favour of $i$th [1]: >>> >>> Do not hyphenate =E2=80=9Cth=E2=80=9D expressions: xth, not x-th = or xth . >>> >>> We can theoretically make a change to support "-", but then it will be >>> logical to support $i$th as well. (If we don't some users will still = be >>> confused after trying to write $i$th and then not getting the expected >>> results). In this question, it would make sense to implement >>> all-or-everything approach. Otherwise, confusion (like raised in this >>> thread) will be inevitable. >>> >>> However, from point of view of Org mode parser, supporting $i$th is a >>> nightmare. Remember that Org mode is _not_ LaTeX and we have to supp= ort >>> a lot more frivolous syntax (even in LaTeX, runaway $ is often a sour= ce >>> of cryptic compilation errors). Currently, we _must_ rely on heuristi= cs >>> to determine $$-style latex fragments. I do not know any way to suppo= rt >>> $$ syntax without creating deviations from LaTeX. Extending the >>> heuristics will not resolve the underlying ambiguity of $$ syntax, ju= st >>> hide it within even more obscure cases. --=20 Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at