From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms9.migadu.com with LMTPS id EEl9Bm2wKWTZlwAASxT56A (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 02 Apr 2023 18:42:21 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id GCR8Bm2wKWTCQQAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 02 Apr 2023 18:42:21 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5B3CE6A4 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2023 18:42:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pj0m1-0003Ww-Dx; Sun, 02 Apr 2023 12:41:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pj0lz-0003Wm-3l for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Apr 2023 12:41:43 -0400 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pj0lw-0007Rt-Pe for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Apr 2023 12:41:42 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94875240243 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2023 18:41:37 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1680453697; bh=298N7uWH/P8rISgzLt4vGVoXCglEQ94fZNjlpZVMs20=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=CUJhPJeYG2bkeTcQoJaOgLMDjx2DdCtSy0p4j3Rq42FGoln1C00COf4PgC/Ldxpv1 X1Ta217k/7SgfZvOlKbJmtcInptJKPLXoAkqHYaxqLbRzxdeG2e52aNEzTza2dN1us hVAS5XANEJOJKUZ/vh9THGqfSrzHcOqm7Nf1B7WjIgEA8ucyI68g4ZpmEBDpnAwQQI uwDqeEZU5rHbOWFAY67EOkG8tyJRBcHQkbrOl8dnNaJXUsmGeqHigMSsRAtMiLXAr1 zje+Gn1Ax+7bPS9Ma0F9G8sJViB/oCnmKYSTb0fknS6Rs5aC4qmMRgWZttXXhjM+ku +Wbyki1PztSuA== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4PqKYF1Jvzz9rxN; Sun, 2 Apr 2023 18:41:37 +0200 (CEST) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Max Nikulin Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] Autoload `org-assert-version' and remove org-loaddefs.el In-Reply-To: References: <874juewk4k.fsf@kyleam.com> <87r0xi5jx7.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7obn0dp.fsf@localhost> <877cuzmreg.fsf@localhost> <87mt3qn0lb.fsf@localhost> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2023 16:44:00 +0000 Message-ID: <87zg7qjktr.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1680453740; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=AyZiVpq8gAcT4ZzEJlbjqvTtEU27s4mFtbXuVHhUh1kKKe2VnLS7ubH/BaOhCtNNavZCau 86/5Bwbn+x4lOTUA72+4TEuLztboVgFEI4eh8sDjxUF4SJ5+rCQgUvSJO3eKXEJORxSXzC zikh8XUysMASLNiSKHiYnEqJomg6I+0i2OvYJy0crNSAOnn2K/FOOR9H7kB3BLmp4kLD1D eYpA4BqAVlDb2lAE3dBUvYotwwWdJQxWIR45KP2TNPi9fEtWECfbFRaduN2owwC+s+BvIT vEM0IZ0vOpZqM5kZWFBR88wKobqoxmJkxBKxYcyrYvgrUcmzs50kxcs0zi99pA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=CUJhPJeY; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1680453740; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=dIUvgCpD8k87JAsmcCCsnjPJaVHxmOLX4p3H+y/ajNo=; b=UDKL0BuVNiKV7MOUPX/W9Fv8e5GZ5jPrQyvt8mIVB04mL0attz0vPRz8Odapb0oPBgZOlf /dkZj0A98mdRcma3gUpvNSfF6B06VH8lM6FMxq0qTIVDtT1idA+x9NrlK8+HpWupuXtkMU W4rvvW7NrYh4uI5KbIo1CFKVBSwLVs8fChdv1cYJnMetmJAD5yXBuaYDaDH86RJ7QhR0NS or3hoRxvn6QjabsDULyNQx12GMGNM4b0rHE05Ru6CqQyqUkYMndETXzrNICsokvMP6ha7F AT8S36Guv/nl/NhPQkW8rtEnOKFJON7/MExec2Pcxj4ZgWEyxhTWVyjAXmzehw== X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.74 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=CUJhPJeY; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Spam-Score: -4.74 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: A5B3CE6A4 X-TUID: bNdKuNCk48mc Max Nikulin writes: >> Does it mean that you are able to? > > I reproduced the issue with packages available in Debian and Ubuntu,=20 > including -Q, so minimally affected by distribution-specific=20 > configuration, but I have not tried to compile Emacs myself. I am=20 > judging from changes in Emacs code made after release of version 28. My attempts to reproduce with emacs -Q only worked on Debian. > apt build-dep emacs > > and perhaps "apt install" for some =E2=80=A6-dev packages for new feature= s.=20 > However my surprise is namely dependence on specific=20 > packaging/distribution. My expectation that it should be reproducible in= =20 > Gentoo as well. It is not, on my side. I tried multiple times. >> It won't, but the very reason that message appeared is the need to do >> that awkward workaround. It must not be needed - we are causing way too >> much inconvenience to users of Emacs versions we claim to support. > > Either I missed your point or the issue will be just postponed. Patched=20 > variant will not prevent mixed version compilation, so users still may=20 > experience calls of undefined functions or incompatible argument types. There are two issues here: 1. The old problem with mixed installation that manifests itself for some users 2. The new problem with org-assert-version, which appears to be even more frequent, despite trying preventing (1). So, we replace less frequent problem and more frequent, which is not useful. Better leave (1) as is until we support Emacs versions where org-assert-version does not cause issues. Of course, ideally we need to solve this issue with org-assert-version, but I see no good way. >>> I am not sure. Perhaps it should be (or (fboundp 'org-assert-version) >>> (new-package-management-code)). Since testing for private function is >>> not a reliable solution, only version check is available. >>=20 >> May you elaborate? > > I do not think it is good idea to rely on > > (or (fboundp 'org-assert-version) > (fboundp 'package--reload-previously-loaded)) This is probably slightly better, but the gain appears to be marginal. We will still miss mixed installation caused by straight.el - much more frequent problem; and the reason I decided to write org-assert-version. > I have not checked if some public function may be used for feature=20 > detection of code appeared in Emacs-29. That is why I would consider > > (when (or (fboundb 'org-assert-version) > (version<=3D "29" emacs-version)) > (org-assert-version)) > However I am still in doubts if it is improvement in comparison to=20 > simple (org-assert-verions) without any conditions. This won't solve the problem I am trying to work around. Emacs 28 and Emacs 27 are what people use most, and it is where (on Debian) org-assert-version does not work with emacs -Q. --=20 Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at