From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:403:4876::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms1.migadu.com with LMTPS id eHLiIxiqP2YK9QAAqHPOHw:P1 (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 11 May 2024 19:25:44 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:403:4876::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0.migadu.com with LMTPS id eHLiIxiqP2YK9QAAqHPOHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 11 May 2024 19:25:44 +0200 X-Envelope-To: larch@yhetil.org Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=dV60Ebmp; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1715448344; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=CsWrKoHWpErI4AnauS2BbT1OkP+Na3VbMySkLvFMJh8=; b=eVZtzek23/qdE6iSgCo96McUICJNiZJDHHzFX9fO1wXBO5PJZECJ0Aohx20qT0huQBNgVO D47Jxem7rC5cI9bMVgJ669MsvCaGOD5lyPGjIznz3e8N3C9U//4aKA1t9FgXO1dLvtzXYl rZg8FtLN5pOCGVzswAAuMaDJ/C2nSPeN8QJxWkM7WfJyQOz4MfzAi7/HkNQJnhTyA4KfRL MzqraKplrh4iEMYuSdo/HubnK1I5HRGalF4wstPeVW7DwpOGCXSJHq70fAddoDUi7TtFir +//PQuomd1e/C/I+1eiiuaDlvwD5xKURJt90Koqh14GammEOavaewG9Vi23PxQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=dV60Ebmp; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1715448344; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=BeItz6F29mzUulwziC+N3FfvpN84dKW0syi6cwAOenbPUMk+uqVJxvSuhOX033NLN5NYnO 0/vhMQBV9uny+flFRQ4zf3ZIV5ozqmEFHzPTtHYSstPB6zWQNDHYg9Vop3s93FhzMEzPa+ QyafZ5EU5JA71S+6BeerD5Es/fWZl3b/lu5BXtcb+bo64ZsfVIVsyioGjr5ulwSYZHsGVD zHuuHg4a3DgIQLA8FzraXKsFrWjRYHBTCp0pVTp0Tg/aLZtKbOdZbZ70a4L040TAIWaqXd M2zs/fNunL0PqrqXxv3htMlfIVtBNEcITGZsZQIslrrUMv6Af4xWmSKIU5OWeQ== Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1321120326 for ; Sat, 11 May 2024 19:25:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1s5qSn-00025t-Og; Sat, 11 May 2024 13:24:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1s5qSm-00024u-Jl for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2024 13:24:48 -0400 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1s5qSj-0008OJ-Pc for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2024 13:24:48 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0405D240027 for ; Sat, 11 May 2024 19:24:43 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1715448283; bh=CsWrKoHWpErI4AnauS2BbT1OkP+Na3VbMySkLvFMJh8=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:From; b=dV60EbmpjH4PlyAH1VsFhZ7lNAgeZ+hgNGu3bqQuci/9oUXQqw6yz0z6Ma7F55YLS nxW65iewqe4upJjhwO4MSx5c2XgoKhXI3G8SUXhWG012CxQ7z4ah0nPqk8h/OQpiTT 9y0hP0FqHN12xjXP2EYNpcEDlR1bfbEBptoH07/oXQm4NyTm4bgHT7DHtlRsi6pMPo yyNqD8owzAvdurU8Ur5knThMydRSlU9sZiJhlijV7nGO8L8nLf2THZEWx6hgpipSqo 08uHCylXT2px9JUuUo7LgB8rEZBd7kmPbHR/agEAc9a/ZZqvtekmnGl/XG76PWIqFD a9F4gKPQbP3+A== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4VcCL23wmlz6tw8; Sat, 11 May 2024 19:24:42 +0200 (CEST) From: Ihor Radchenko To: =?utf-8?Q?Andr=C3=A1s?= Simonyi Cc: emacs-orgmode list Subject: Re: [PATCH] oc-csl: New custom option `org-cite-csl-sentence-case-bibtex-titles' In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 11 May 2024 17:26:13 +0000 Message-ID: <87zfswtg3u.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Spam-Score: -7.44 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 1321120326 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx10.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -7.44 X-TUID: cwQt4ug1mCWm Andr=C3=A1s Simonyi writes: > since bibtex and biblatex requires title fields to be in title case > ... Are you sure? AFAIK, bibtex and biblatex (depending on the bibstyle) does not care about capitalization and instead applies its own, unless the title explicitly protects the capitalization/case with {Curly BracketS}. See https://texfaq.org/FAQ-capbibtex and https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/20335/proper-casing-in-citation-bib= liography-titles-using-biblatex-biber > ... but CSL assumes that they are in sentence-case, citeproc-el converts > title fields in bib(la)tex bibliography databases into sentence-case > before processing them except for entries with an explicit non-English > langid value... AFAIU, the general recommendation is to use sentence case in the bib files. Both for Bib(La)Tex (because it converts into title case if necessary by itself) and for CSL, according to https://citationstyles.org/authors/ Of course, not every real-life bibliography follows such suggestion, but, as stated in https://citationstyles.org/authors/, converting from title case to sentence case is error-prone: >> For this reason, we recommend that you store all titles in your >> reference database in sentence case. Our repository CSL styles that >> need sentence case will generally just print titles as is, whereas >> styles that need title case will use an automatic title-case >> conversion. Looking at https://github.com/andras-simonyi/citeproc-el/issues/119 and https://github.com/andras-simonyi/citeproc-el/issues/142, it appears to me that citeproc.el does not stick to the above guideline from CSL website - unless title case is requested by the bibliography converting to sentence case should not be done by default. Also, such conversion should only happen in titles, AFAIU; not in other fields. > Subject: [PATCH] oc-csl: New custom option > `org-cite-csl-sentence-case-bibtex-titles' I see no problem with the new feature, but I'd consider flipping the default to nil. --=20 Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at