s-tab not working as intended in kde's konsole

s-tab not working as intended in kde's konsole

[Izzie]

Hi, I'm a newcomer to orgmode and a basic emacs user who has trouble with some 
shortcuts not doing what they should. I don't know how to fix it.

This problem occurs on an aptosid (debian sid 64-bits) laptop with kde when 
running emacs in konsole with the -nw parameter. 

Instead of folding/unfolding S-TAB seems to take focus away as the cursor goes 
from full to empty but nothing. 

shift-tab happens to be used by konsole as a shortcut for "next view container" 
but I'm not sure what actually happening as this problem doesn't occur at all on 
my desktop under debian wheezy 64-bits and disabling the shift-tab shortcut in 
konsole doesn't fix the problem.

I also noticed a few other shortcuts are not working, such as:
- C-S-RET (seems to do the same as a regular RET)
- M-S-RET (does nothing but emacs complains with "ESC <kp-enter> is undefined"
- C-RET (seems to be the same as a regular RET)
- M-S-LEFT/RIGHT does not work but M-LEFT/RIGHT does

Any help appreciated.

Iz

Re: s-tab not working as intended in kde's konsole

[Eric S Fraga]

Izzie <ml_orgmode.kapush@antichef.net> writes:

> Hi, I'm a newcomer to orgmode and a basic emacs user who has trouble with some 
> shortcuts not doing what they should. I don't know how to fix it.
>
> This problem occurs on an aptosid (debian sid 64-bits) laptop with kde when 
> running emacs in konsole with the -nw parameter. 

My experience with console use of emacs is that many key sequences are
not possible.  Some are trapped by whatever terminal emulator is being
used and others are simply not understood.

The trick is to identify which ones are not and provide
alternative bindings for those commands if you really need them.  You
can, of course, always execute any given command using =M-x command RET=
(where M-x may have to be invoked by =ESC x=).

However, one must ask: why use emacs in console mode if you are running
kde?  This does limit what emacs can do.

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.0.50.1
: using Org-mode version 7.5 (release_7.5.97.g078c0)

Re: s-tab not working as intended in kde's konsole

[Izzie]

Eric S Fraga <e.fraga <at> ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> > Izzie <ml_orgmode.kapush <at> antichef.net> writes:
> > This problem occurs on an aptosid (debian sid 64-bits) laptop with kde when 
> > running emacs in konsole with the -nw parameter. 
> 
> My experience with console use of emacs is that many key sequences are
> not possible.  Some are trapped by whatever terminal emulator is being
> used and others are simply not understood.

I had this problem with gnome-terminal and using zsh but switching to kde fixed 
it as it seems konsole does a good job at not getting in the way by dealing 
smartly with shortkeys collision, somehow telling when the shortkey should go to 
the shell and when it should go to konsole. At least until now, maybe I hadn't 
hit the specific key combination that does not work inside konsole yet.
 
> The trick is to identify which ones are not and provide
> alternative bindings for those commands if you really need them.  You
> can, of course, always execute any given command using =M-x command RET=
> (where M-x may have to be invoked by =ESC x=).
> 
> However, one must ask: why use emacs in console mode if you are running
> kde?  This does limit what emacs can do.

Remote editing of files through ssh often (but not always) inside screen is the 
reason. I know about tramp but haven't had time to look into it yet. I have not 
found an equivalent to screen though.

Re: Re: s-tab not working as intended in kde's konsole

[Eric S Fraga]

Izzie <ml_orgmode.kapush@antichef.net> writes:

[...]

>> However, one must ask: why use emacs in console mode if you are running
>> kde?  This does limit what emacs can do.
>
> Remote editing of files through ssh often (but not always) inside screen is the 
> reason. I know about tramp but haven't had time to look into it yet. I have not 
> found an equivalent to screen though.

Yes, that's a valid reason for sure!  I have the opposite in that I use
my phone to access my office desktop but I suffer from the same problem:
on my phone there is no (easy?) way to send, for instance, M-S-<down>
(=org-shiftmetadown=) which I need to insert a new row in a table.  Not
the easiest command to type directly unfortunately.

One of the options to access commands that are bound to keys you cannot
use easily is to invoke the emacs menu.  You can access the menu even in
screen mode through M-` (tmm-menubar).  So, for instance, to insert a row in the
table, you can type "ESC ` T r i".  Although I don't actually have the
menu bar shown ever, org has an excellent menu structure which seems to
provide access to all the important commands!  Mind you, on my phone,
accessing backtick is non-trivial, but that's another story. ;-)

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.0.50.1
: using Org-mode version 7.5 (release_7.5.113.g9010a.dirty)

Re: s-tab not working as intended in kde's konsole

[Achim Gratz]

Izzie <ml_orgmode.kapush@antichef.net> writes:

> Hi, I'm a newcomer to orgmode and a basic emacs user who has trouble with some 
> shortcuts not doing what they should. I don't know how to fix it.
>
> This problem occurs on an aptosid (debian sid 64-bits) laptop with kde when 
> running emacs in konsole with the -nw parameter. 
>
> Instead of folding/unfolding S-TAB seems to take focus away as the cursor goes 
> from full to empty but nothing. 

This doesn't appear to have anything to do with orgmode, but... KDE
defines a lot of global shortcuts in addition to each application being
able to define their own shortcuts on top of that.  If you want to check
if that's the problem, the window menu (right click on title bar or
frame) should offer "Extended->Special settings" or whatever
localization calls these.  Temporarily disable all global shortcuts and
see if it works better (don't forget that none of the shortcuts will
work while the window has focus).  If you can input S-Tab now, you can
then decide if it's better to remove the shortcut or to redefine the key
sequence in Emacs.  If it still doesn't work, maybe your keyboard isn't
set up correctly or the character encoding inside the shell is
inconsistent with the settings in the terminal emulation.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf Blofeld:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds

Re: s-tab not working as intended in kde's konsole

[Izzie]

Achim Gratz <Stromeko <at> nexgo.de> writes:

> 
> Izzie <ml_orgmode.kapush <at> antichef.net> writes:
> 
> > Hi, I'm a newcomer to orgmode and a basic emacs user who has trouble with 
some 
> > shortcuts not doing what they should. I don't know how to fix it.
> >
> > This problem occurs on an aptosid (debian sid 64-bits) laptop with kde when 
> > running emacs in konsole with the -nw parameter. 
> >
> > Instead of folding/unfolding S-TAB seems to take focus away as the cursor 
goes 
> > from full to empty but nothing. 
> 
> This doesn't appear to have anything to do with orgmode, but... KDE
> defines a lot of global shortcuts in addition to each application being
> able to define their own shortcuts on top of that.  If you want to check
> if that's the problem, the window menu (right click on title bar or
> frame) should offer "Extended->Special settings" or whatever
> localization calls these.  Temporarily disable all global shortcuts and
> see if it works better (don't forget that none of the shortcuts will
> work while the window has focus).  If you can input S-Tab now, you can
> then decide if it's better to remove the shortcut or to redefine the key
> sequence in Emacs.  If it still doesn't work, maybe your keyboard isn't
> set up correctly or the character encoding inside the shell is
> inconsistent with the settings in the terminal emulation.
> 
> Achim.

Wow! You just opened me to a whole new world of possibilities in advanced 
window management I didn't suspect existed. No luck though as disabling kde 
shortcuts didn't change a thing. With both konsole shortcuts and kde shortcuts 
out of the way the problem is still here.

I don't really what to do to check is the keyboard,a fr_CH qwertz btw, is 
correctly set up. I looked up konsole settings and found a section about 
keybindings set on default (xfree4), I tried the other option "linux console" 
but it didn't fix my problem, and I found encoding is set to utf-8.

Re: s-tab not working as intended in kde's konsole

[Achim Gratz]

Izzie <ml_orgmode.kapush@antichef.net> writes:
> Wow! You just opened me to a whole new world of possibilities in advanced 
> window management I didn't suspect existed.

Actually that's one of the reasons I still stick with
KDE... indispensable when you have to work remotely and the other end
beams a complete desktop over.  Another neat-o thing is that you can
make your windows frame-less and fix their geometries.

> No luck though as disabling kde shortcuts didn't change a thing. With
> both konsole shortcuts and kde shortcuts out of the way the problem is
> still here.

I've just tested it on my system and the problem is indeed with konsole
itself and not any of the standard shortcuts.  Qt takes over the Backtab
to re-focus on the "New Tab" button while you are in the terminal
window.  You can actually work around by just not showing that button
(it's an option in the profile editor).  I consider this a bug in
konsole (it looks like they correctly handle TAB, but forgot about
BACKTAB), you should report this to the KDE folks.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

Wavetables for the Waldorf Blofeld:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#BlofeldUserWavetables