setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file

setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file

[J. David Boyd]

I can export an org file to a PDF no problem, looks great.

However, how do I get rid of the huge left and right and top and bottom
margins?  I like my PDFs to have no more than .75" top, bottom, left and
right.

I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can find
with customize-apropos, but not having any luck.

Thanks,

Dave

Re: setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file

[Bastien]

jdavidboyd@adboyd.com (J. David Boyd) writes:

> I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can find
> with customize-apropos, but not having any luck.

You can use the LaTeX geometry package:

  \usepackage[margin=0.25in]{geometry}

HTH,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file

[J. David Boyd]

Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:

> jdavidboyd@adboyd.com (J. David Boyd) writes:
>
>> I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can
>> find with customize-apropos, but not having any luck.
>
> You can use the LaTeX geometry package:
>
>   \usepackage[margin=0.25in]{geometry}
>
> HTH,

Thanks, but since my LaTeX-fu and Org-fu are quite weak, where would I use
this at?

I can put it into the .tex file that is created manually, then run pdflatex 3
times like org does, but there must be somewhere to put it into the org
config, yes?

Dave

Re: setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file

[John Hendy]

On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 11:59 AM, J. David Boyd <jdavidboyd@adboyd.com> wrote:
> Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> jdavidboyd@adboyd.com (J. David Boyd) writes:
>>
>>> I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can
>>> find with customize-apropos, but not having any luck.
>>
>> You can use the LaTeX geometry package:
>>
>>   \usepackage[margin=0.25in]{geometry}
>>
>> HTH,
>
> Thanks, but since my LaTeX-fu and Org-fu are quite weak, where would I use
> this at?

I have a line at the top like so:

#+latex_header: \usepackage[margin=0.25in]{geometry}

(Mine's different, but that's the analog for this case). Anything you
would normally put in LaTeX straight-up, like commands, settings,
packages, etc. would go into #+latex_header: lines in Orgmode. Here's
an example of my default setup:

#+AUTHOR:    John Henderson
#+OPTIONS: *:t TeX:t H:5 creator:nil
#+latex_header: \usepackage[hmargin=2.5cm,vmargin=2.5cm]{geometry}
#+latex_header: \usepackage{mathpazo} \usepackage{paralist}
#+latex_header: \usepackage{enumitem}
#+latex_header: \setlength{\parskip}{0.5cm} \setlength{\parindent}{0cm}
#+latex_header: \usepackage{lscape}
#+latex_header: \usepackage{booktabs}
#+latex_header: \hypersetup{colorlinks=true,linkcolor=blue,urlcolor=blue}

Just wanted to give an example of how you might setup Org to do what
you want in LaTeX/PDF output.

To go even further, I don't even have the above in each Org file. I
keep it in ~/org/aux/setupfile.org. Then in each file I create, I use
this line:

#+setupfile: "~/org/aux/setupfile.org"

So, for any regularly used options, I just leave them in setupfile.org
and bring them in with the above line for new files. For things I want
to set per-file, I'd add a file-specific #+latex_header line, or tweak
the #+options parameters.


John

>
> I can put it into the .tex file that is created manually, then run pdflatex 3
> times like org does, but there must be somewhere to put it into the org
> config, yes?
>
> Dave
>
>
>

Re: setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file

[J. David Boyd]

John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> writes:

> On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 11:59 AM, J. David Boyd <jdavidboyd@adboyd.com> wrote:
>> Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>>> jdavidboyd@adboyd.com (J. David Boyd) writes:
>>>
>>>> I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can
>>>> find with customize-apropos, but not having any luck.
>>>
>>> You can use the LaTeX geometry package:
>>>
>>>   \usepackage[margin=0.25in]{geometry}
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>
>> Thanks, but since my LaTeX-fu and Org-fu are quite weak, where would I use
>> this at?
>
> I have a line at the top like so:
>
> #+latex_header: \usepackage[margin=0.25in]{geometry}
>
> (Mine's different, but that's the analog for this case). Anything you
> would normally put in LaTeX straight-up, like commands, settings,
> packages, etc. would go into #+latex_header: lines in Orgmode. Here's
> an example of my default setup:
>
> #+AUTHOR:    John Henderson
> #+OPTIONS: *:t TeX:t H:5 creator:nil
> #+latex_header: \usepackage[hmargin=2.5cm,vmargin=2.5cm]{geometry}
> #+latex_header: \usepackage{mathpazo} \usepackage{paralist}
> #+latex_header: \usepackage{enumitem}
> #+latex_header: \setlength{\parskip}{0.5cm} \setlength{\parindent}{0cm}
> #+latex_header: \usepackage{lscape}
> #+latex_header: \usepackage{booktabs}
> #+latex_header: \hypersetup{colorlinks=true,linkcolor=blue,urlcolor=blue}
>
> Just wanted to give an example of how you might setup Org to do what
> you want in LaTeX/PDF output.
>
> To go even further, I don't even have the above in each Org file. I
> keep it in ~/org/aux/setupfile.org. Then in each file I create, I use
> this line:
>
> #+setupfile: "~/org/aux/setupfile.org"
>
> So, for any regularly used options, I just leave them in setupfile.org
> and bring them in with the above line for new files. For things I want
> to set per-file, I'd add a file-specific #+latex_header line, or tweak
> the #+options parameters.
>
>
> John
>

Thanks very much!  Exactly what I was looking for.

Dave

Re: setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file

[Nick Dokos]

jdavidboyd@adboyd.com (J. David Boyd) writes:

> Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> jdavidboyd@adboyd.com (J. David Boyd) writes:
>>
>>> I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can
>>> find with customize-apropos, but not having any luck.
>>
>> You can use the LaTeX geometry package:
>>
>>   \usepackage[margin=0.25in]{geometry}
>>
>> HTH,
>
> Thanks, but since my LaTeX-fu and Org-fu are quite weak, where would I use
> this at?
>
> I can put it into the .tex file that is created manually, then run pdflatex 3
> times like org does, but there must be somewhere to put it into the org
> config, yes?
>

In the org file:

#+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage[margin=0.25in]{geometry}

If you want to make this the default, you can customize
org-latex-packages-alist:

(add-to-list 'org-latex-packages-alist
             '("margin=0.25in" "geometry" nil))

Nick

Re: setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file

[J. David Boyd]

Nick Dokos <ndokos@gmail.com> writes:

> jdavidboyd@adboyd.com (J. David Boyd) writes:
>
>> Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>>> jdavidboyd@adboyd.com (J. David Boyd) writes:
>>>
>>>> I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can
>>>> find with customize-apropos, but not having any luck.
>>>
>>> You can use the LaTeX geometry package:
>>>
>>>   \usepackage[margin=0.25in]{geometry}
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>
>> Thanks, but since my LaTeX-fu and Org-fu are quite weak, where would I use
>> this at?
>>
>> I can put it into the .tex file that is created manually, then run pdflatex 3
>> times like org does, but there must be somewhere to put it into the org
>> config, yes?
>>
>
> In the org file:
>
> #+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage[margin=0.25in]{geometry}
>
> If you want to make this the default, you can customize
> org-latex-packages-alist:
>
> (add-to-list 'org-latex-packages-alist
>              '("margin=0.25in" "geometry" nil))
>
> Nick

Beautiful!  Thanks very much.  I'll definitely be adding it into my defaults.

Have a great orging day!

Dave

Re: setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file

[Michael Strey]

Hi Dave,

Please read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canons_of_page_construction
before changing anything in the layout of margins.

The typical LaTeX classes are made thorougly with those classic rules of
page construction in mind.


On 2014-04-23, J. David Boyd wrote:
> I can export an org file to a PDF no problem, looks great.
>
> However, how do I get rid of the huge left and right and top and bottom
> margins?  I like my PDFs to have no more than .75" top, bottom, left and
> right.
>
> I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can find
> with customize-apropos, but not having any luck.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave

-- 
Michael Strey 
www.strey.biz

Re: setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file

[John Hendy]

On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 5:29 AM, Michael Strey <mstrey@strey.biz> wrote:
> Hi Dave,
>
> Please read
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canons_of_page_construction
> before changing anything in the layout of margins.
>
> The typical LaTeX classes are made thorougly with those classic rules of
> page construction in mind.

I have to ask: is whatever was once considered the golden ratio for
text-to-whitespace in printed material, or even used by Gutenberg
himself for proper typesetting considered relevant/best practice
today? Default Org -> LaTeX article looks *ugly as all hell* to me.
Other than theoretical principle, is there evidence that readers
prefer the look of the default LaTeX article sizing?


John

>
>
> On 2014-04-23, J. David Boyd wrote:
>> I can export an org file to a PDF no problem, looks great.
>>
>> However, how do I get rid of the huge left and right and top and bottom
>> margins?  I like my PDFs to have no more than .75" top, bottom, left and
>> right.
>>
>> I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can find
>> with customize-apropos, but not having any luck.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dave
>
> --
> Michael Strey
> www.strey.biz
>
>

Re: setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file

[Martin Schöön]

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Recommended reading if your are interested in typography:

Robert Bringhurst: "The Elements of Typographical Style" ISBN 0-88179-205-5
Victoria Squire: "Getting it Right with Type" ISBN-13: 978-1-85669-474-2
Ellen Lupton: "thinking with type" ISBN 1-56898-448-0
Derek Birdsall: "notes on book design" ISBN 0-300-10347-6

I have enjoyed reading all four and I recommend you read at least two of
them because there is not one and only one true and proper way to do this.
Nor is it trivial so before changing anything you should make sure you know
what you are doing! The ease with which the user can meddle with typography
is one of the reasons word-processors such as MS Word and OpenOffice Write
should be banned :-)

-- 
Martin Schöön

http://hem.bredband.net/b262106/index.html

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Re: setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file

[Thomas S. Dye]

Bringhurst is very good.

Also, good discussions from a LaTeX point of view in Chapters 2 of the
Koma-Script and Memoir manuals.

On my system, I get these with `texdoc memoir' and `texdoc koma'.

hth,
Tom


Martin Schöön <martin.schoon@gmail.com> writes:

> Recommended reading if your are interested in typography:
>
> Robert Bringhurst: "The Elements of Typographical Style" ISBN 0-88179-205-5
> Victoria Squire: "Getting it Right with Type" ISBN-13: 978-1-85669-474-2
> Ellen Lupton: "thinking with type" ISBN 1-56898-448-0
> Derek Birdsall: "notes on book design" ISBN 0-300-10347-6
>
> I have enjoyed reading all four and I recommend you read at least two of
> them because there is not one and only one true and proper way to do this.
> Nor is it trivial so before changing anything you should make sure you know
> what you are doing! The ease with which the user can meddle with typography
> is one of the reasons word-processors such as MS Word and OpenOffice Write
> should be banned :-)
>
> -- 
> Martin Schöön
>
> http://hem.bredband.net/b262106/index.html
> Recommended reading if your are interested in typography:
>
> Robert Bringhurst: "The Elements of Typographical Style" ISBN
> 0-88179-205-5
> Victoria Squire: "Getting it Right with Type" ISBN-13:
> 978-1-85669-474-2
> Ellen Lupton: "thinking with type" ISBN 1-56898-448-0
> Derek Birdsall: "notes on book design" ISBN 0-300-10347-6
>
> I have enjoyed reading all four and I recommend you read at least two
> of them because there is not one and only one true and proper way to
> do this. Nor is it trivial so before changing anything you should make
> sure you know what you are doing! The ease with which the user can
> meddle with typography is one of the reasons word-processors such as
> MS Word and OpenOffice Write should be banned :-)

-- 
Thomas S. Dye
http://www.tsdye.com

Re: setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file

[Martin Schöön]

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On 25 April 2014 21:51, Thomas S. Dye <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:

> Bringhurst is very good.
>
> Also, good discussions from a LaTeX point of view in Chapters 2 of the
> Koma-Script and Memoir manuals.
>
> On my system, I get these with `texdoc memoir' and `texdoc koma'.
>
> hth,
> Tom
>

Both Koma and Memoir are great but their manuals are not even close to any
of the books I listed.

-- 
Martin Schöön

http://hem.bredband.net/b262106/index.html

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Re: setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file

[Michael Strey]

On 2014-04-25, John Hendy wrote:
> I have to ask: is whatever was once considered the golden ratio for
> text-to-whitespace in printed material, or even used by Gutenberg
> himself for proper typesetting considered relevant/best practice
> today?

Yes, at least partly.  "Verachtet mir die alten Meister nicht!" (Do not
condemn the old masters!) -- Richard Wagner

> Default Org -> LaTeX article looks *ugly as all hell* to me.

Check the Komascript classes.

> Other than theoretical principle, is there evidence that readers
> prefer the look of the default LaTeX article sizing?

Beyond all aesthetic meanings, there are some practical aspects that are
valid for all presentations of text to readers.  The most important rule
is that the number of characters per line shall not exceed 70.  Together
with the chosen font, its size, and tracking, this rule defines the
width of the type area.  Together with the interlinear space, this rule
is relevant for the readability.  The longer the line, the larger (but
not to large!) the interlinear space.

Thus for printed papers where the most economical use of paper is
important, a multi-column layout is the way to go to get the smallest
margins.


-- 
Michael Strey 
www.strey.biz

Re: setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file

[John Hendy]

On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Michael Strey <mstrey@strey.biz> wrote:
>
> On 2014-04-25, John Hendy wrote:
>> I have to ask: is whatever was once considered the golden ratio for
>> text-to-whitespace in printed material, or even used by Gutenberg
>> himself for proper typesetting considered relevant/best practice
>> today?
>
> Yes, at least partly.  "Verachtet mir die alten Meister nicht!" (Do not
> condemn the old masters!) -- Richard Wagner

Fair enough, but let's not forget that "the old masters" of the
medical profession around that time were practicing bloodletting.

>
>> Default Org -> LaTeX article looks *ugly as all hell* to me.
>
> Check the Komascript classes.
>
>> Other than theoretical principle, is there evidence that readers
>> prefer the look of the default LaTeX article sizing?
>
> Beyond all aesthetic meanings, there are some practical aspects that are
> valid for all presentations of text to readers.  The most important rule
> is that the number of characters per line shall not exceed 70.  Together
> with the chosen font, its size, and tracking, this rule defines the
> width of the type area.  Together with the interlinear space, this rule
> is relevant for the readability.  The longer the line, the larger (but
> not to large!) the interlinear space.
>

This is more what I was looking for, especially if there have been
some studies on something like reading speed, comprehension, or
perhaps some quantifiable measure of eye fatigue. After you wrote
this, I definitely recognize that almost every journal, magazine, and
newspaper article is in column format. I don't work in academia or
write journal articles, but I do work at a very large technology
company (manufacturing, consumer goods, advanced materials, etc., not
software) and I've never seen a column formatted internal technical
report.

So my comment was more about inquiring why these conventions aren't
followed if they're so vastly superior. I'd have figured I'd run into
at least *some* teacher/professor at some point in my life who
requested/suggested/taught about the benefits of fixed
character-per-line typesetting?

> Thus for printed papers where the most economical use of paper is
> important, a multi-column layout is the way to go to get the smallest
> margins.

Also makes sense, and I hadn't thought about that -- default LaTeX
just spits out an island of text some several inches in from all edges
of the page, which never made sense to me (unless maybe I was writing
a book, as that's the sort of look in connotes).


John

>
>
> --
> Michael Strey
> www.strey.biz
>

Re: setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file

[John Hendy]

On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Michael Strey <mstrey@strey.biz> wrote:
>
> On 2014-04-25, John Hendy wrote:

[snip]

>> Default Org -> LaTeX article looks *ugly as all hell* to me.
>
> Check the Komascript classes.

Missed this point. I've dabbled with them a little, but will have to
take another look as they come up quite a bit. The point made above
was:

> Please read
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canons_of_page_construction
> before changing anything in the layout of margins.

> The typical LaTeX classes are made thorougly with those classic rules of
> page construction in mind.

So I took the most "typical" LaTeX class to be the default one used,
article. I'd expect the most common LaTeX class to truly represent the
pinnacle of typesetting glory ;) Other than font, if Koma changes
geometry/borders... I'm thinking that the article class must either 1)
not embody "the classic rules" that well or 2) the classic rules
aren't very aesthetically pleasing after all.

John

Re: setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file

[Thomas S. Dye]

John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> writes:

> I'm thinking that the article class must either 1)
> not embody "the classic rules" that well or 2) the classic rules
> aren't very aesthetically pleasing after all.

or 3) the classic rules are variable and flexible.

Here is a quote from the Koma script manual:

  Many LATEX classes, including the standard classes, present the user
  with the largely fixed configuration of margins and typearea. With the
  standard classes, the configuration determined is very much dependent
  on the chosen font size. There are separate packages, such as geometry
  (see [Ume00]), which give the user complete control, but also full
  responsibility, of the settings of typearea and margins.

  KOMA-Script takes a somewhat different approach with its typearea
  package. Here the user is given several construction setting and
  automatization possibilities based on established typography standards
  in order to help guide him or her in making a good choice.

All the best,
Tom

-- 
Thomas S. Dye
http://www.tsdye.com

Re: setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file

[John Hendy]

On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Thomas S. Dye <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
> John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I'm thinking that the article class must either 1)
>> not embody "the classic rules" that well or 2) the classic rules
>> aren't very aesthetically pleasing after all.
>
> or 3) the classic rules are variable and flexible.

I love out-of-the-box thinking :)

>
> Here is a quote from the Koma script manual:
>
>   Many LATEX classes, including the standard classes, present the user
>   with the largely fixed configuration of margins and typearea. With the
>   standard classes, the configuration determined is very much dependent
>   on the chosen font size. There are separate packages, such as geometry
>   (see [Ume00]), which give the user complete control, but also full
>   responsibility, of the settings of typearea and margins.
>
>   KOMA-Script takes a somewhat different approach with its typearea
>   package. Here the user is given several construction setting and
>   automatization possibilities based on established typography standards
>   in order to help guide him or her in making a good choice.
>

Interesting quote! You've sold me on Michael's original suggestion and
I'll be checking out Koma more closely very soon. It's great timing as
a semi-annual technical report at work is due from me shortly :)

John

> All the best,
> Tom
>
> --
> Thomas S. Dye
> http://www.tsdye.com

Re: setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file

[Achim Gratz]

J. David Boyd writes:
> However, how do I get rid of the huge left and right and top and bottom
> margins?  I like my PDFs to have no more than .75" top, bottom, left and
> right.
>
> I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can find
> with customize-apropos, but not having any luck.

The scr* family of LaTeX packages (aka KOMA-Script) allow you to change
the margins with the DIV argument.  Depending on the base font size,
something like DIV13 or even DIV15 might give result closer to your
goal, but .75" margins are definitely reader-unfriendly (yes, journals
do that all the time, but it's still no good).


Regards,
Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

Wavetables for the Terratec KOMPLEXER:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#KomplexerWaves

Re: setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file

[J. David Boyd]

Achim Gratz <Stromeko@nexgo.de> writes:

> J. David Boyd writes:
>> However, how do I get rid of the huge left and right and top and bottom
>> margins?  I like my PDFs to have no more than .75" top, bottom, left and
>> right.
>>
>> I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can
>> find with customize-apropos, but not having any luck.
>
> The scr* family of LaTeX packages (aka KOMA-Script) allow you to change the
> margins with the DIV argument.  Depending on the base font size, something
> like DIV13 or even DIV15 might give result closer to your goal, but .75"
> margins are definitely reader-unfriendly (yes, journals do that all the
> time, but it's still no good).
>
>
> Regards,
> Achim.

Why "reader-unfriendly"?

I prefer to print with .75" margins, gives me plenty of whitespace on the
edges for hole punching and notes.  .5" is too dense on the paper, and 1"
leaves me feeling like I've used up a forest.