Re: Emacs inserts hardwired org-agenda-files variable, overwriting user options

[Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com>]

Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:

> Org files I have always found useful for project and plan documents
> preparation, in particular LaTeX and PDF export. As that way I get
> better readability on screen and good printed document.
>
> None of such projects and plans need be marked with TODO as its nature
> is that it is action plan, all items are actionable items. We print a
> project and execute it. People report on project steps by email. 

I disagree. Or rather it depends on workflow:
In the process of writing a plan or document there is sometimes an urge
to fix small details instead of finishing the first draft and moving to
more fine-grained edits afterwards. One way around this urge is quickly
inserting an inline todo item and continuing to write (another way is
writing on paper, but one would need to spend extra time re-typing the
hand writing later).

If the document text has inline todo items, it could be useful to mark
the top-level headline todo as well, simply to remind about any ideas
postponed during the writing. Such headline cannot be switched to done
if org enforced todo dependencies.

> There is no need to write TODO anywhere as printed file cannot be
> changed easily to DONE, it is redundant marking action list item on
> the paper with anything but heavy check mark ✔ with initals and date
> and time when it was completed. Using it for printed projects is not
> same as using computer. In general it makes more practical sense to
> export Org files to paper and focus on what has to be done instead on
> focusing on decorating Org properties or tags as it wastes time.

Todo keywords don't have to be included into exported version of the
document.

>> Unless I am badly mistaken, I think this is only true when
>> org-enforce-todo-dependencies is non-nil?
>
> Variable is nil on my side.
>
> - [-] Something
>   - [ ] one
>   - [ ] two
>   - [X] three
>
> I cannot mark Something to be done without marking those subordinate
> items. Changing org-enforce-todo-dependencies does not change
> anything. User will need to lie to oneself to close those items to
> become able to close senior item.

I believe it is hard-coded. One may send a feature request to have more
control over this behaviour.

> One would also expect that mentioned variables should influence this
> type of structured action items, but it does not. It relates only to
> headings. Org offers list item based actions with - [ ] but does not
> handle such.
>
> ** TODO Buy shoes [1/3] [33%]
>    :PROPERTIES:
>    :CREATED:  [2020-12-13 Sun 11:36]
>    :ID:       d488c7e5-941a-4ce6-aec3-e1b20e1acd70
>    :END:
>
> - [ ] Visit shop A
> - [ ] Visit shop B
> - [X] Visit shop C

> What is good that this way the senior item can be completed without
> completing subordinate items. In my opinion that is more human alike.

You need org-enforce-todo-checkbox-dependencies to look into check-boxes
when changing headline todo states.


> If I do turn on the mentioned variable `org-enforce-todo-dependencies'
> to TRUE, I can still close the senior objective here. This is good,
> but variable does not do expected.

> ** DONE Senior objective
>    CLOSED: [2020-12-13 Sun 11:22]
>    :PROPERTIES:
>    :CREATED:  [2020-12-13 Sun 11:36]
>    :ID:       6f2fba8a-925b-4c99-9d62-5f48d433a8cc
>    :END:
> *** TODO Subordinate action 1
>     :PROPERTIES:
>     :CREATED:  [2020-12-13 Sun 11:36]
>     :ID:       1c3c2da7-c564-43e0-b274-b8f0065624ec
>     :END:
> *** TODO Subordinate action 2
>     :PROPERTIES:
>     :CREATED:  [2020-12-13 Sun 11:36]
>     :ID:       9cb275fd-fcbf-441c-b42d-62c82aa3ff56
>     :END:
>    
> Variable mentions:
>
> Its value is t
> Original value was nil
>
>   You can customize this variable.
>
> Documentation:
> Non-nil means undone TODO entries will block switching the parent to DONE.
> Also, if a parent has an :ORDERED: property, switching an entry to DONE will
> be blocked if any prior sibling is not yet done.
> Finally, if the parent is blocked because of ordered siblings of its own,
> the child will also be blocked.
>
>> Non-nil means undone TODO entries will block switching the parent to DONE.
>
> It obviously does not do that what me as user expects.

I cannot reproduce what you observe. Also, one can forcefully change
todo state to done even when org-enforce-todo-dependencies is set to
TRUE. To do it, C-u C-u C-u C-c C-t needs to be used instead of C-c C-t
for setting the todo state.

> But I am not
> asking for solution neither help in solving unsolvable issues around
> Org related planning as it leads to further complexities. Those issues
> are really solved on my side as I just use it for documents.

Note that you are also risking to complain about things that are
actually not a problem. Simply because you don't have a need to
investigate what is possible.

> These comments are meant for people to design their own maybe better
> ways than having scattered lists everywhere.
>
> Jean