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[106.69.123.93]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c205sm20462481pfc.160.2020.12.14.12.18.29 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 14 Dec 2020 12:18:30 -0800 (PST) References: <87o8kf69tm.fsf@ucc.asn.au> <87v9d66l75.fsf@gmail.com> <87a6ugpftr.fsf@gmail.com> <877dpkpefs.fsf@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.5.7; emacs 27.1.50 From: Tim Cross To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Emacs as an Org LSP server Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 06:50:47 +1100 In-reply-to: Message-ID: <87y2i0kup8.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1030; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x1030.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.01 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=bzqI3A6s; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 7C32C94042E X-Spam-Score: -3.01 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 4d1PQ7RfPpLe Jean Louis writes: > It may all look nice and shiny. But what you people don't understand > is that it is Microsoft and deep meaning of Microsoft one can know if > one researches the history as only so one can see the present and look > into future. Microsoft never changed its strategies. Language server > protocol is just another branch of possible strategies to take away > people's computing. It is matter of advertising and making it popular, > when all the fish are in the net that is where final result comes, and > that is to take away people's freedom and computing to centralized > places. > This is just ill informed nonsense. The LSP is nothing more than a specification. The fact it was initially defined/proposed by Microsoft is completely irrelevant. > If Microsoft is really so friendly, then instead of server based > language service they could provide generic definitions how editor > could act, and editor could load those generic definitions locally > without server/client paradigm. > It is NOT server based in the sense you mean. In fact, it is actually precisely what you argue it should be. LSP is simply a "generic definitions how editor could act, and editor could load those generic definitions locally." There is absolutely nothing intrinsically wrong with a client server model. This is exactly the same model you use for your all singing and dancing extension to org based on a postgres database backend (another client server model). The 'model' doesn't even need to use TCP networking, you could do it using just Unix sockets. Have a look at the existing LSP implementations for Emacs. None of them require an external server. None of them have anything tied to Microsoft or github at all (apart from downloading the code). None of them even require an external network connection. LSP is nothing more than a specification for a program and a client which defines the interface between the two and what the supported API should be. Yes, this has a benefit for Microsoft because it means that it does not have to implement specific support for every possible language in their editors like VSCode. However, this is also a benefit for other editors, like Emacs, because it too can take advantage of this facility because Microsoft has made the protocol public (they had no choice other than to make it public because they want others to implement the servers, not Microsoft). If your going to speak with authority on some subject and claim we don't understand it, perhaps you should first make sure you have done your own research and have a basic understanding of what it is rather than making inaccurate claims based on a misunderstanding of the use of the word Server and some baseless conspiracy theory.