From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id 0KygAFFUYmCdEgAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 00:27:29 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id aCAPNlBUYmAhNwAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 22:27:28 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 95959CB23 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 00:27:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:37052 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lR0M1-00087s-Pd for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:27:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46584) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lR0Ld-00087k-Nr for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:27:01 -0400 Received: from gateway20.websitewelcome.com ([192.185.64.36]:31525) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lR0Lb-0005Ij-Io for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:27:01 -0400 Received: from cm17.websitewelcome.com (cm17.websitewelcome.com [100.42.49.20]) by gateway20.websitewelcome.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E539F400D25F8 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 17:16:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from box2035.bluehost.com ([74.220.219.237]) by cmsmtp with SMTP id R0LOl2A3kMGeER0LOlfvKu; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 17:26:47 -0500 X-Authority-Reason: nr=8 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tsdye.online; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: In-reply-to:Subject:To:From:References:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=mxRHpteIvy2zUmngCxZI4r5v0H7p20L2zyp/1jozIKc=; b=ODbqppKCxX1TpFaZdbct4mgiV mzsqzy/XNy8NwROBCuLRcH6sr9zIPY+F27qCLs3b9ruABRdG3ZXo0wdPKH4vDmK92F2/dQR22Q6YR MX6W7Zd9bGQX17IjOAcWFsSkb69qnW6Xq4bwvy5hack02a0D0q5/tx4LkOl9lNwS0H32xRkY2MZbl zuAsyb+wd7C1uxPqgle11BnZksSQawSHvvAG9mPcahzJK1x0LktLijlZ6iNZZdF+qHMTVX72UlnoK 4hN+ApR2d75e0UCvNnaIZxUuaM5CQbET1vmOUabi/Cwb/qb/hdu9WHMolYo6YfKKuQ/moGR60lNAU ntqardgVA==; Received: from cpe-50-113-36-248.hawaii.res.rr.com ([50.113.36.248]:59140 helo=lekeleka.tsdye.online) by box2035.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1lR0LO-000ZhM-4p for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 16:26:46 -0600 References: <88a3facd-2f95-42b7-135a-d2ec6a730ba7@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 26.3 From: "Thomas S. Dye" To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: About exporting In-reply-to: <88a3facd-2f95-42b7-135a-d2ec6a730ba7@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:26:44 -1000 Message-ID: <87y2e5ppej.fsf@tsdye.online> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box2035.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - tsdye.online X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 50.113.36.248 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1lR0LO-000ZhM-4p X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: cpe-50-113-36-248.hawaii.res.rr.com (lekeleka.tsdye.online) [50.113.36.248]:59140 X-Source-Auth: tsd@tsdye.online X-Email-Count: 1 X-Source-Cap: dHNkeWVvbmw7dHNkeWVvbmw7Ym94MjAzNS5ibHVlaG9zdC5jb20= X-Local-Domain: yes Received-SPF: pass client-ip=192.185.64.36; envelope-from=tsd@tsdye.online; helo=gateway20.websitewelcome.com X-Spam_score_int: 17 X-Spam_score: 1.7 X-Spam_bar: + X-Spam_report: (1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FROM_SUSPICIOUS_NTLD=0.499, PDS_OTHER_BAD_TLD=1.999, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.347, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1617056848; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=mxRHpteIvy2zUmngCxZI4r5v0H7p20L2zyp/1jozIKc=; b=LobVdSZVfgb0NWraKX0k0hf6Ce9s8bRGeE7CooBm06ys+crI+G+y/kHA6/FgYoa5PWdbKr 2foE7Kzeee1aSAa6aHwGgPPJKN0/sUl3Mngefx1U1VJQSn3bYy6pu5otBQPs9mHEE8DWXv CcnlMKX+XI2hHYY+WQ125v3Jur+6WaxdwUMUzyybg9pLCuEmNNE7nmOBooSqSGPtJ3fYCc Q+l1j+LQcZozqFcyUU6xJOVKiqQWG7XsIV7SUJxjg/cPn6A95jjFMWnBQqeZ49DxDLFcit QWLN3QFCMjWqkxttCN7y9LENFAXgUjJ+L48QgYLXYC51dstRLAy/bEsM74i5zA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1617056848; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=q+15xwr3BT5t7+Dl20Jsk/0SfXOiQteqGfnhL9QzZ2Qg3hOZp/28V6cgwdQT98VYXqsWwT VFvDQj2R9L/jAN13nWzF2TrY8/Vh23fBELFINLoo7pXMwex8Ok6JIkcbbwHkDVWUw2jJan xd/WkPVEfrU3lMfC/chPaWn2JXRddO4n5f8Va4+/UcDtAGIQjf7Xp1uE1YaaMot659IfEL PiWn9/hD/5KnmHokHOKbCjXpByaohebnmLEjGPILkCIOb8aoYVhZPLC9mqwgHUalQ8iyY+ uusBjbc6I5LDK4gnUUSFkRhl8vHYOfuh+iMfr8gw3suSb/Z9URfr5GBfGQ6q5w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=tsdye.online header.s=default header.b=ODbqppKC; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 0.08 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=tsdye.online header.s=default header.b=ODbqppKC; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 95959CB23 X-Spam-Score: 0.08 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: XVcYSkoSznM5 Aloha Ypo, "Exporting for life" is a vague target, so it is difficult to give precise recommendations. It is usually the case that export to LaTeX doesn't require subsequent modification of the tex file. In most cases for my work, I am exporting to a LaTeX document style/class provided by someone else. This is fairly typical of the LaTeX world, where academic journals and university degree programs design their own in-house styles and then ask authors to use them. The idea behind LaTeX is that LaTeX defines the meaningful units of a document (headers, paragraphs, quotes, etc.) so that a single LaTeX document can be exported to multiple targets, each of which styles the document units in its own way. Because Org mode targets LaTeX, and not a particular style, this means that Org mode inherits LaTeX's style agnosticism. Of course, there are exceptions to this general rule, where a LaTeX class/style defines document units that extend the LaTeX spec. It can be tricky to get Org mode to export to one of these non-standard styles. If you intend to create documents with bibliographies, then IMHO LaTeX export is the best choice. BibTeX defines a plain text bibliographic database that is very widely used and capable of meeting the most exact bibliographic requirements. John Kitchin has written org-ref to manage BibTeX databases from Org mode, and Joost Kremers has ebib, which integrates nicely with Org mode and accomplishes many of the same tasks covered by org-ref. A native Org mode bibliographic solution has been discussed for many years and there is an org-cite branch that is a nearly complete work in progress. This will be designed to use Citation Style Language, rather than BibTeX, which means (at least currently IIUC) that there will be somewhat less fine control over bibliographic format, although there are thousands of CSL style definitions, which presumably cover all the most likely targets. In my experience, CSL approximates most bibliographic styles, rather than producing them exactly, so YMMV. Even without the need for bibliographies, LaTeX might be your best choice. In my field, most of the journals *require* an MS Word document, a practice that gives me no end of heartburn. I've found that export to LaTeX followed by conversion with the Haskell program pandoc gives the best results. Pandoc is pretty nifty, with conversion among quite a few different formats. LaTeX provides a rich input, which pandoc handles really well. hth, Tom Ypo writes: > Hi > > After some years of using orgmode, and exporting using its > defaults, I would > like to take a quality leap and find a way of exporting for > life. My options: > LaTeX, ODT, HTML. > > LaTeX: I can see some masters here that make professional books, > and I have some > friends that publish scientific papers using LaTeX. But, it > looks like a like a > rabbit hole to me, since even the masters seem to have to modify > the tex file > directly (is this correct?), not being sufficient orgmode to > culminate the work > by itself. And to learn LaTeX seems a lifelong activity (almost > like "learning" > orgmode). BTW, when I export to LaTeX although it gets the job > done, it sends a > lot of error messages. > > ODT: I take this one as a lower level solution than LaTeX, but > it looks easier > to tame, and it even allows to use templates, for example to > make reports in > the workplace. Do you think it is worth focusing on ODT > exporting? Could it be a > definitive solution to publish papers and books directly from > orgmode? ODT > exporting sends some error message to me, but at least I > understand it. > > HTML: I have seen some themes > > designed to export > in LaTeX format using HTML. Here we would have the "definitive > tool": The power > of LaTeX in the versatility that could give the use of different > themes for > different purposes. But, do you think it could get, some day, > the quality of a > direct LaTeX export? No errors by my side when exporting to > HTML. > > How do you think I should spend some hundreds (or thousands) of > hours to achieve > maestry exporting my documents? > > Best regards. -- Thomas S. Dye https://tsdye.online/tsdye