From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id qAC+JUiGrGH1PQEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 05 Dec 2021 10:28:40 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id oBJyIUiGrGH0TgAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 05 Dec 2021 09:28:40 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 307D62FD1C for ; Sun, 5 Dec 2021 10:28:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:35114 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mtnp0-0000EM-Ja for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 05 Dec 2021 04:28:38 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40728) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mtnod-0000EC-8G for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Dec 2021 04:28:15 -0500 Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.195]:39921) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mtnob-00039Q-6u for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Dec 2021 04:28:14 -0500 Received: (Authenticated sender: admin@nicolasgoaziou.fr) by relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 594AA60009; Sun, 5 Dec 2021 09:28:10 +0000 (UTC) From: Nicolas Goaziou To: Ihor Radchenko Subject: Re: Some commentary on the Org Syntax document References: <87mtljpd1w.fsf@gmail.com> <871r2upy8s.fsf@gmail.com> <87a6hggagz.fsf@localhost> <87y250oo3o.fsf@gmail.com> <874k7og6my.fsf@localhost> <87v904yaes.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87y250eah0.fsf@localhost> <87wnkksa5j.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87y24zbm2x.fsf@localhost> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2021 10:28:09 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87y24zbm2x.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Sun, 05 Dec 2021 14:30:14 +0800") Message-ID: <87y24zl7ti.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.70.183.195; envelope-from=mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr; helo=relay3-d.mail.gandi.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Tom Gillespie , emacs-orgmode , Timothy Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1638696520; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=xFDKg6wIos2qfbTzJbBsn1LKv6ZQ38lA0s7eXWFSYOg=; b=aEEHDBvrB/gi5bk8g+boc+LBLTyyWSz34tDhEnwlPdqE2qMhT2BHWHlewMMj/i3d+V/vSw d6k5UQTnT3t5xbkviOF7APBOxzS2tC1Oy1KR4ohipDXCWxEsSfIzksj4aVwjkMI1TJ8nxB r8MqyICwJYxzeAZEpbZyIVjiTj91ToZw0dxlr36r5VAAI0uvVevVqtc80FwA+K2VaKOPw/ 1Lot8uKC1yG1iM3U/IfGgLP5RX0Jh5zSEN2zuyaWZ1EKAMKul8OvPDXh56fELYpK9Nwv4A FmDcjLL2pmLrXZaZk1nKw6ahF4RYOfzwnF1jynTAf3J4R+6Bi04h0lHemOk/LA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1638696520; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=qTc4z0RV/RYdedaBiCOo6hPRcVDYqGmwwnEUmjw3GcLueA/3YgPmjIIs0uPjUYevH9nabx L5yv1PVEXpWSaTw3blrzBPhrQAWR775Zgs4rRjZymUiMzTcB384Csy3c8sSVwSfmesIwlt Ahc4nPFGpxy7WBw0jF2A+GhRjz1la+ZtJH2Qs8FULcM8PPmzD/OkaCq1YVp4vKklKgpB6Q 5EP/aHIyJYxcEJ3HtUrO7llz65ZNBIAswEwx/U4L2tGFBcxwUbbcF6RvAFffDol+0uxqEh myPdcsQOD8mnJaqZtS0FxQGhmIDjma9Bkq/iVGX3+hm9QPTRuHvCL+2EMUEpiA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.03 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 307D62FD1C X-Spam-Score: -3.03 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 7lwO3OIZvgHa Hello, Ihor Radchenko writes: > Nicolas Goaziou writes: >> But then, you do not remove the ambiguity that is condemned in this >> thread. The greater element/element and greater element/lesser element >> distinctions are equivalent, albeit not identical. > > AFAIU, elements =3D greater-elements =E2=88=AA lesser-elements > The current syntax draft contains section "Greater elements" defining > all the greater-elements and section "Elements" defining lesser-elements > However, the word "elements" also refers to all possible elements in > some parts of the draft. > I propose to remove the ambiguity by referring to members of > org-element-greater-elements as "greater elements"; to > org-element-all-elements - org-element-greater-elements as "lesser > elements"; and to org-element-all-elements as just "elements". I understand the proposal. I'm just pointing out that currently, the distinction exists already in some other form=E2=80=94as noted, what you ca= ll lesser elements is currently the set difference between greater elements and elements. Therefore, it is hardly a huge step forward. In any case, both proposals are incomplete. >> IIUC, you want three terms for elements (I am not even talking about >> secondary strings, which can hold objects that are not part of >> contents), > > Yep. For clarity, I mean three terms /in addition to "elements"/. For example, a drawer, a paragraph and a planning line all are elements. Yet, they may be different enough so as to deserve their own label. >> ... and probably two for objects: terminal and non-terminal. > > Sorry, I do not understand what you refer to here. Some objects can contain other objects. Others cannot. Per above, it may be ambiguous to use the term "object" for both categories. In a nutshell, naming is hard. Regards, --=20 Nicolas Goaziou