From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:c151::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id wFIoC1XRVWCPWAAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 10:41:25 +0000 Received: from aspmx2.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:c151::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id +LYSB1XRVWDPAgAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 10:41:25 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx2.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5CF09271DD for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 11:41:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:48042 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lNZ2o-00031b-8q for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 06:41:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34760) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lNZ2L-00031D-Iu for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 06:40:53 -0400 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:34636) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lNZ2E-0002Nd-T5 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 06:40:53 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD5BA160063 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 11:40:43 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1616236843; bh=mQIxEzGhFfzD6k/PKKYIWKfMoHttJTzJ/xXIM8NZQyI=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=keUN1bNK3wa6+/7quZ4VngRI28OCmYIn51VUr2QedINYoHxvP6TzQufzUCFhYTt36 8k3qU6HPKXK4SVH6WENp0HbEMDyGdz70+/S1nYUYatkmXcfduCLoZX3jFHePfq5cyq Lms0wPgMOc13ATZmfNeZqcYwBxjxm6p9aVr/lgg2axUqZ/VltfDo4GaZPvDDIW1WVR pzvEMMiissemtysv1BrchRhrpGIX0d8f06rZWTuqlzKhDPj7qcNMK/22qVGdbEEuCa 7meWrHuGHh9bzezkez/die+62IWM8nVNd1IlZlMaQ3/SI6I7I0KBM5RUm9s9Euh7Lt 2YHZCr9tJlx8g== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4F2cjk0SjKz6tn0; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 11:40:41 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Juan_Manuel_Mac=C3=ADas?= To: Tim Cross Subject: Re: Syntax Proposal: Multi-line Table Cells/Text Wrapping References: <7a450ea3-b0e4-3322-04cd-fb5a5a555db8@gmx.com> <87o8fgwn9s.fsf@gmail.com> <9533dd41-ec81-43dd-8d25-a41300eb720c@gmx.com> <87czvw85ym.fsf@gmail.com> <87im5n9sjw.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <8735wqn55u.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2021 11:40:40 +0100 In-Reply-To: <8735wqn55u.fsf@gmail.com> (Tim Cross's message of "Sat, 20 Mar 2021 08:33:04 +1100") Message-ID: <87wnu2yuon.fsf@posteo.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=maciaschain@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: orgmode Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1616236884; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=2AyisCerbuQ5I6yxjS0wXunqvd6v6AxD5F+afJejPKs=; b=sijcUxGLWvrbM3FDYF19Z4QCFtCWnwcDUCZrCr1I+JFXlgbvgHfoR3goR3oVwdebJPyQ3m srEf4BUXzW95xIbL5iaENnh9PfF8RgDMFbXGjwWgOm5W44MSmodjSsXayiE8V02P9uKJdK Y35WE4n2I6o6IO73FDi8MsNqxGixUWq5aolqjp2EyuRYMctfhyScLNxBwrKsKxmU8FqWip 7jNOD1f9AUGK1t1Q5NYtEKqoIENcaokIVfZBOvMCqSmJqF35i8USraseSNE+JDpqn7jvUX S+oUP+5TOCPdeD7Cc7E8tH247nNZUy12xreD/KJDTLC2KsFg5CSU0J4v/JzKrw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1616236884; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Z7xb3VplcDr7YETZLf+1T51Y2kqyiRey/j4dV212wSWmG9+BuV5hcPqqGXp74k6+mvL158 lLbYOtSESHaV7bne1UP0ouPXyGwGlKU2Dq7up9sAsGaa1Gfl3OzfXOe7h9MG6tPMUQWbxr Fn7fmqWdUEefIwFajllCMOWukw992+YG/uFYRIOBcSHa/pttth6eC2vtKpam4/AeutTAWt CGy/Ka5qvgYxX8GSUlWUQ9FiAx+urB2e2tbgy91zwwRuSu9vIwnkSRuq0+zCVTOzJjdO4M HPsfBEBelmJk2CZQilufWfO7y0dUuRKTW80oo/UN2bAV9/C9fzDHbzU+UOEx2Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx2.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=keUN1bNK; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx2.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.11 Authentication-Results: aspmx2.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=keUN1bNK; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx2.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 5CF09271DD X-Spam-Score: -3.11 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: Z+tCWN+JpKVK Tim Cross writes: > It has also been stated that the Latex exporter won't be a problem as > tabularx (and other Latex packages) will just handle this. Sadly, I > don't think it is that simple. I have used that package a lot over the > years and there have been times I've had to render tables with > multiple columns and rows. While the various latex table like packages > do provide a much better outcome for tables with more complex cell > structure, it is rare that you don't need to do a fair amount of > tweaking to actually get good looking complex tables. Handling a cell > with a couple of lines may be fine, but it is very easy to hit the > limits of what the package can handle without some tweaking. This is > where I think things begin to fall down. My suspicion is that the > amount of work needed to make the Latex exporter handle the majority > of common use cases for this new syntax is much larger and more > complex than it seems and getting this to work reliably and > consistently will be extremely difficult. tabularx does a fairly acceptable job out of the box on tables whose cells have complex or 'multi-line' content, such as paragraphs. But, naturally, it all depends on the context and scenarios: table, page dimensions, book type and many more factors. The typography, when demanding, is the art of exceptions. And I think this is valid even in such an 'automated' tool like LaTeX (fortunately, LaTeX and TeX are also very ductile, if you know the code well). In any case, I agree that it would not be a good idea to translate the LaTeX tabular environment, with all its nuances, to Org tables. In addition to the fact that Org would be burdened with a unnecessary complexity, is the fact that the syntax of both types of tables differ essentially. Org tables have a more visual character; the tabular environment is a pure "what you see is what you mean". In a tabular environment I see no problem in writing something like this row (ugly, but acceptable) in 3 lines: #+begin_src latex lorem & Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Donec hendrerit tempor tellus. Donec pretium posuere tellus. Proin quam nisl, tincidunt et, mattis eget, convallis nec, purus & ipsum \\ #+end_src But in an Org table I don't see how it could be done without messing up the spirit of its syntax ... that's why I think (IMHO) the least traumatic option, in cases where cells have 'a lot of content', is the possibility of edit cells in a dedicated buffer, like this proof of concept that I did: https://lunotipia.juanmanuelmacias.com/edit-cell-sample-2021-03-19_09.29.17.mp4 And if the table is very complex then I don't see any other option than writing directly the LaTeX code (in case the intended target is only LaTeX/PDF). Best regards, Juan Manuel