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Thu, 13 Oct 2022 14:27:12 +0000 Received: from YT3PR01MB9964.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::820b:f1d7:ddad:27ad]) by YT3PR01MB9964.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::820b:f1d7:ddad:27ad%6]) with mapi id 15.20.5723.026; Thu, 13 Oct 2022 14:27:12 +0000 From: Leo Butler To: Max Nikulin CC: "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" Subject: Re: Export of this table fails LuaLaTeX compilation Thread-Topic: Export of this table fails LuaLaTeX compilation Thread-Index: AQHY3q3E7gT+LxxBLkKOn4fWLCxk2g== Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 14:27:12 +0000 Message-ID: <87wn93re80.fsf@t14.reltub.ca> References: <784cf8be450b7d676ddd60214cc847db@posteo.net> <87zge1smmd.fsf@localhost> <7581529d3dbf83cb799b32da863de76b@posteo.net> <877d15sds9.fsf@localhost> <87tu48tpb0.fsf@localhost> In-Reply-To: (Max Nikulin's message of "Thu, 13 Oct 2022 11:59:37 +0700") Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: YT3PR01MB9964:EE_|YQXPR01MB6591:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 8b610855-9cab-49a9-3067-08daad270504 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1665671643; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=WDNif4flRUvQ+iS38Zr01WHIjwNKJOh+myLBvKD9aqM=; b=BYHGK/i9IiU5S9QQcTAtOsJoy8VFhl21OQtLt1LD78jPwQU619oFXYg9WN/Omld2Sx4y6L jEf+yJJu780LICOWo2dT4AnGJF7q8PCXS4Me7yetNbnNMbTt+Ykt47yI6NRmvyQH3DB8WM g4kzBOFil9J2+fLDwcmar4XDqK04QxZ4zjPMziie5uWKAadII08eTVEsJsgr1w8aAiin20 62iNposykEemAmOSf/KSWtKB8T66NR7QQFeu9lOlggyJCWufHvA1leaIYLO2HonlMuc4B3 wp6Eu1+Q0NCZIvxfzkGSa5vRLxybF4jYhG0bl/s//z9ZVfdLl0mg2LncqJwKIQ== ARC-Seal: i=2; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1665671643; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; b=nCfT9rRtL/9Ip3ex/uuVwi/9JVRImfUanEFm/LQIuMx95ia55+pCaHBmmlOcC9l7cZBRvZ rWL71BAei3m9HDd+b8AHsUVluN+uRFgZpq6XyXqjrOC8n9QFMLu1ISS2ahkEiXYiuUSAzE 8graj3WhfbE3Jrtyuf+jeIdGxZ0lMsZoyGWZEBYFKK9mn4HaxRx/o+nmlj30EQffhupOrk oBFKqKn1uOmCKE6yNzyz6o+8aq45y/u+ls88NXE17pvzz5MvI089DpmwDzdHX3mKena58w h+1kyXOjkCU9JTNXqDQxzocCrvJDbEscUq8fZvpWperIA9l3oa4Ktmj+K2b9nQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=umanitoba.onmicrosoft.com header.s=selector2-umanitoba-onmicrosoft-com header.b=WTrTCFnM; arc=pass ("microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1"); dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.90 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=umanitoba.onmicrosoft.com header.s=selector2-umanitoba-onmicrosoft-com header.b=WTrTCFnM; arc=pass ("microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1"); dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 637352F8F2 X-Spam-Score: -2.90 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: rBrg8pylwxqf On Thu, Oct 13 2022, Max Nikulin wrote: > On 13/10/2022 09:44, Ihor Radchenko wrote: >> Max Nikulin writes: >>=20 >>> I am considering \noalign{} instead of \relax. I was never aware of its >>> effect, but accordingly to The TeXbook it should keep TeX in vertical >>> mode without any action due to empty argument. (Actually I surprised >>> that \relax causes any change of internal state besides parser.) >> If \noalign has less side effects compared to \relax, I'd prefer >> \noalign. Can you confirm this? > > My understanding of TeX is not solid enough to confirm this. From The > TeXbook I have an impression that \noalign is added specially for=20 > table-like blocks to be used immediately after \cr (low level command > similar to \\). So I would not use it outside of tables however it may=20 > be safe. I am not aware of problems with \\\noalign{} in tables. The > exact effect of \relax is not clear to me yet. I do not have an > example of negative effect of \relax similar to \hline but outside of > tables. > > I can try to ask for a better suggestion at stackexchange, but I am > unsure if the question will be noticed by some person from a TeX > engine or core LaTeX developers or at least with better understanding > of TeX internals. > >>> Unfortunately \noalign{} just as \relax will not allow @@latex:[1cm]@@ >>> on the next line, perhaps @@latex:\noalign{\vskip 1cm}@@ is a workaroun= d >>> to introduce additional vertical space. >> What you are talking about appears to be abusing our exporter. We >> give >> no guarantees about how \\ is going to be exported internally into >> LaTeX. We should have no obligation to keep use-cases like this. > > On the other hand LaTeX backend was transparent to such hacks, so the > change might be breaking to some users. That is why conditionally > adding \noalign{} or \relax if \\ is not followed by an export snippet > may be a better solution. > >>> I never used \\* or \\*[10pt] variants of the command. Current stable >>> release should has problems when the line next to \\ starts from * that >>> is not bold marker, besides square brackets. >> I feel like I am missing what you are talking about here. > > The rabbit hole is deeper than I thought. The \\ command has its star > counterpart \\* to prevent page break at this point, and both of them=20 > allow optional [] argument. In vanilla LaTeX2e space is > allowed between \\ and *. However \usepackage{amsmath} redefines \\ > command. It still can recognize following *, but only on the same > line. Unsure if it is a bug or feature. So before your commit the > following is not a problem in *default* Org configuration: > > Star\\ > @@ignore:@@* on the next line. > > Star and brackets\\ > *[1em] on the next line. > > | Star | > | * in the next row. | > |-| > | Star and brackets | > | *[1em] in the next row. | > > However it might be if someone changes list of default > packages. Adding \noalign{} and \relax should fix the issue just for > square brackets. > > So at least as a temporary fix \noalign{} should be used for tables > instead of \relax to mitigate negative effect of the recent patch. > > P.S. Packages like longtable might bring more surprises. Maybe Org should not use \\ to end lines in a latex-exported table? The fact that it has many variations argues against its use in Org, IMO. My suggestion is to use the TeX command \cr. Or, define a command in the exported latex, something like \newcommand{\orgcr}{\cr} and end rows in a table with \orgcr. Someone who really wants \\ with its variations can redefine \orgcr and everyone else can just enjoy the simplicity of Org. Leo=