From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id cACZN6bwhGBTwAAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 06:31:34 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id yOllM6bwhGDHUwAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 04:31:34 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8C41E977 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 06:31:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:45382 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1laWQd-0001Uk-UC for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 00:31:31 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40930) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1laWPs-0001UX-20 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 00:30:44 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:60192) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1laWPr-0007xb-Fl; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 00:30:43 -0400 Received: from [78.194.183.21] (port=58778 helo=guerry) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA256:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1laWPp-0007fu-6x; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 00:30:42 -0400 Received: by guerry (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5FF581A61098; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 06:30:37 +0200 (CEST) From: Bastien To: Timothy Subject: Re: Concerns about community contributor support In-Reply-To: <87pmyuyssi.fsf@gmail.com> (Timothy's message of "Sat, 17 Apr 2021 02:43:09 +0800") Organization: GNU References: <87pmyuyssi.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2021 06:30:37 +0200 Message-ID: <87v98b0yvm.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: org-mode-email Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1619325094; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=sMsJ5sVq5cPpr9X6euidOsEJ51lwLfS0WJFyf4wRuiM=; b=hE22eYLzZ+QqgpnqH7PusykNz8KbH9y6fE1+ivL3qTCd97lX3ZjXsm3gfHDJHAff9H7fYQ OuOmN+EXUEShhm1ZKb4QVUBt1p/EDpkV2qqbJWHqo47JIlE3sb1UoHgMRulQcfpXHou8y0 Mu48R1aSn6cEiBwBGHVgamJvs7ou+VWqKM0jods1amIAuGcOSjnRW3kDm5QwNhtHrxG6b1 Arkwv6zs6Kd4XOGRaMTDD6EhgKiOTbS90qVXhysrt2hcZ16NHDoTSUG4phH3KBzHTtsdig dFXaepfUGaCfHqjCJvZxHZaJMwvBIibg30XXAFGRvUkthBZuEj0oQqy4IS/w2Q== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1619325094; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Mt0okgAo0cBV+SVD+XTUWse4L3ceb/ocaHl7XiqIyWAGl2C750i2oLS4S4uPBjxiCGTYnG awBw7usSt8+mw2PaMk/u4iZj7ei57Uf8Vh52Dr+2Y2j8SsSlYLyQ6wm0HEzqKXKTPrwM8+ jK0EHLC4gSmjnBqbwf/oHfL2plgl9tkSg8v0bZPWqWKpyevxZrmoXitELHR6n8HXfNQXJG aoj4udnU3QDAN3u2Ym4VdB4jThEBCoP2+INpDeI9/neLtIWXw51RNZwmwHvn3yZSmA5eT6 9DUWqz4yUdIuPkdd23+x0Ak8BSx9mD58Rs4LMDJEkEXzHHWeVWsCrvWd6bqMdg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.94 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: D8C41E977 X-Spam-Score: -2.94 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: z6poDkroz9r4 Dear Timothy, thanks for raising this points so carefully, they are important. I see three distinct problems: 1. The lack of response and/or follow-up when people contribute by sending bug reports or patches on the list. 2. The lack of maintainance on documenting the contribution process and the correct expectations for future contributors. 3. The inherent difficulty to move the Org codebase forward. I won't comment on (3). For (1) and (2), I suggest appointing a "contributor steward" with these responsibilities: 1. Maintain updates.orgmode.org (i.e. make sure it is accurate.) 2. Maintain the documentation for contributors. 3. Help contributors enhancing their patches. 4. Try to reproduce bugs (and confirm them for updates.orgmode.org) 5. Make sure patch contributors are not left with no answer. You started (1), which is really appreciated. Tim and others mentioned (2), and that's certainly needed too. (3) has historically been the role of the maintainer and of the core contributors, but helping with this is very welcome: knowing the doc at https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html by heart, educating contributors on the commit messages, etc. This all helps. (4) is perhaps the most daunting task: I even think we could have someone only dedicated to this very important task. Just count the number of times Nicolas says "I cannot reproduce this." Each time, there is a real bug that is *not* fixed... (5) is not about systematically welcome patch submitters with a message (that would be annoying) but to monitor updates.orgmode.org and decide what to do with a patch that didn't receive feedback: either say thanks and ping the list for why you think the patch deserves more attention, or thanks and dismiss the patch, or another answer. What do you think? Would you be willing to take this role? If not, that's perfectly okay, I'll send a call for help. Thanks, -- Bastien