From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id uIUPCAySZGG87AAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2021 21:35:40 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id QJLGAgySZGFtHwAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2021 19:35:40 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 573D5162F9 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2021 21:35:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:49690 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ma15F-00045S-5G for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 11 Oct 2021 15:35:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50084) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ma14N-00045I-5J for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Oct 2021 15:34:43 -0400 Received: from mout-p-202.mailbox.org ([80.241.56.172]:62380) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ma14K-0005P6-H0 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Oct 2021 15:34:42 -0400 Received: from smtp202.mailbox.org (smtp202.mailbox.org [80.241.60.245]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-384) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mout-p-202.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HSps80rGmzQk3F for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2021 21:34:36 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at heinlein-support.de DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=guelker.eu; s=MBO0001; t=1633980873; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=7jV4Zaqn55zwNqsDVcYRArPoIlYOUcMn2CygFUhvap0=; b=RZ+2QNP/i7aMit4hJvL8NNoQM5r5waAJ+INaD7nQ5O9wlrcgs7Vh/aVa6pcPUY3ZFs8PvC XIQ055aBGdoGlk4oP9eI70GyE8mxTjE8lfCVGcyM5Bk8t8QiNPsmDaeRWMpptl2c5wCOV7 zFwYD1p62WUm9Vbg4daFxveWUpA/2NDRHNlpDp7BcB2fRGO4PsTbQ4QXS6cceJiOxzdLMn EK6Nheg5VJ4+8hh9buSVc0oOsjKxsZa+ldt2jX+AMI4acPC5FrwReDBJQOJl/4O01En0K8 aO+uhq76Dm7fXAg34XVepQW+reGPbj+V5/pOyVCvg/8ayYLEmkRZpl0HdxyJqg== References: <87wnmljn2y.fsf@atlantis> <8735p99ob0.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87tuhoixan.fsf@atlantis> <87h7dotzcw.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87lf30w334.fsf@atlantis> <871r4rhphk.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87y26ztphu.fsf@atlantis> From: M. =?utf-8?B?4oCYcXVpbnR1c+KAmSBHw7xsa2Vy?= To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Citations: non-page locators placed in front of citation In-reply-to: Mail-Followup-To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 21:34:29 +0200 Message-ID: <87v923tkxm.fsf@atlantis> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C19B726B Received-SPF: pass client-ip=80.241.56.172; envelope-from=post+orgmodeml@guelker.eu; helo=mout-p-202.mailbox.org X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1633980939; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=7jV4Zaqn55zwNqsDVcYRArPoIlYOUcMn2CygFUhvap0=; b=moKueKZNTVhdCSam1FYaJrI0//mDfBLUPu4gmxeWvZC5bS6jHTVnhhQuJrp13g55UyvuTm w3mNX14pMuyZbojuUoS+ahAUBS0Hajso5qPMoIvFYvlJZtR1c39T6c/d1TgrJVWnu5AZBF YEJkTtzv6L6Yz66hVysuwkIEKT+D8lLQhSb1vdzaavwMqczzxIi9V0cWmBl+an66JEm0S9 J6el1iZsmY12QOII57XSQjESr7oX8akmg0NrD+sHT14XTZP7hfkWTWvTx38bIrhpbQ0+Ih yXcHnS+EwLmFbwlWQ8Vb+215e5k+lkRcwTqcbHQPv0qHgIKiQ0vtiYcY1+L1xA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1633980939; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=JH+tXZz7MPFGZVqdy4tvHWn3khGq/36tPVN7lMMQqwFtXqfWT5tv46pZh1tB1CTfwXVKTZ ti0VMtvWjLiYINkTFQ7pAM0Bv/ug4S/CRA90IPvGQxGr8HMnnSlC1rCRTQrUy22HOhgnMG 6ucnjchD62iZNQs9aeCS0aln/L3HzpjctOqnmqRbmXuRVcIK21yTVuZBQoMGtvbdlT8GaX lsdvbLDpi9lYJVYjbMKI1pzJFlzam2BwhzZkM7WG7O+Q1I9DFUGx4AAKZ+qw7xdmDHVU9i PmFoeciRdLWXVKeTjl7uNIVjBG8Kq+cyMY6f+i9wq6g357CWKq2g599Pv6oeWQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=guelker.eu header.s=MBO0001 header.b="RZ+2QNP/"; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.12 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=guelker.eu header.s=MBO0001 header.b="RZ+2QNP/"; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 573D5162F9 X-Spam-Score: -3.12 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: mJ7J6ykdXtWk Am Montag, dem 11. Oktober 2021 schrieb Bruce D'Arcus: > Looks like =C2=A7 is currently mapped to the same as =C2=B6: "paragraph",= which > is indeed incorrect. > > https://github.com/citation-style-language/locales/blob/0cc3885f6100e26ac= 6c6d103efa6f3d7195fd21b/locales-de-DE.xml#L210 This is interesting. Pandoc -- which I thought relies on these files? -- outputs the expected =C2=A7 sign. For Das ist ein Test [@saenger2013gsr, =C2=A7 12 Rn. 488]. it yields Saenger, Gesellschaftsrecht, 2. Aufl. (2013), =C2=A7 12 Rn. 488=E2=86=A9 which is what I would have expected. The issue appears to be in the way =C2=A7 is interpreted in the text input. After reading the locales-de-DE.xml file, I suspect a case of lost in translation. In German, when read out aloud, we spell the =E2=80=9C=C2=A7= =E2=80=9D character as =E2=80=9Cparagraph=E2=80=9D. This is evidently different from the Englis= h speaker, who, as I have been told, would read it out as =E2=80=9Csection=E2=80=9D. H= owever, in fact the German word =E2=80=9CParagraph=E2=80=9D translates to =E2=80=9Csec= tion=E2=80=9D in English. The unit below it is called =E2=80=9CAbsatz=E2=80=9D in German -- in English, i= t would be =E2=80=9Cparagraph=E2=80=9D. That is: | English | German | German Short form | |-----------+-----------+-------------------| | Section | Paragraph | =C2=A7 | | Paragraph | Absatz | Abs. | At least, when it comes to legal contexts. As it always is the case with language, meaning can vary be context. If I talk about sections of a novel, in German it would be =E2=80=9CAbschnitt=E2=80=9D rather than =E2=80= =9CParagraph=E2=80=9D. But that=E2=80=99s not something one would cite. If I really would need to cite= a novel, I would cite it either by chapter or by page number (with line number, if necessary). There is no symbolic sign to my knowledge to denote the unit below =C2=A7 in German. The locales-de-DE.xml files suggests =C2=B6. That might actually be valid in some discipline, but we do not use that in jurisprudence. I do not see a problem with it; it can be left in. What needs to change is the part of org that maps =C2=A7 to CSL's "paragraph". =C2=A7 needs to be m= apped to "section" instead. Long story short: I do not think that it is a bug in locales-de-DE.xml, and I guess Pandoc proves my point here. Please map =C2=A7 to "section" instead of "paragraph" in org-cite, i.e., do it the way Pandoc does it. -quintus --=20 Dipl.-Jur. M. G=C3=BClker | https://mg.guelker.eu | PGP: Siehe Webseite Passau, Deutschland | kontakt@guelker.eu | O<