From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms9.migadu.com with LMTPS id 6E80ERXEgGQHbwEASxT56A (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2023 19:53:25 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id FboiERXEgGS95QAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2023 19:53:25 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA3A843430 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2023 19:53:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1q6xKo-0008Ho-03; Wed, 07 Jun 2023 13:52:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1q6xKl-0008Hd-Qt for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2023 13:52:35 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1q6xKj-00065t-G2 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2023 13:52:35 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 608F5240103 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2023 19:52:30 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1686160350; bh=+Dn4xNhhib++xDLE/Iqk6JOHVAf/aw6hoUksKl8CtiI=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:From; b=aKuDWyLcOWsLoI8/5ldZ5oX+0s5tML4BHNE2O48zD+mqHOo3JnGRIGQ+xNzMQkd4T MhyR9Pxfa7OHhIe9UNn3jLHSMVCwLUzkCv+0JxexcUfu99/wJdgBJfvieXPYvEk+8S 8WK7dfyZFFUg1uXcJi1V2HX7Dtq9IVDMR3wUIbO5Qd0lpNDAXWzdLxedSlSjGS9eBu gqiZwXZeKD+3ws5WSIAo4l9Btjx14allkJif5AJrLOtDEohHjyi+jH6dX3vAdZ+Ebl i8wVhdYZnq2wFC4yAaNftyu5ZnCDt2PuAo37UgqSbOv8O7v6aA6PFZU86DVEz6N0e5 RW+AOLmnoZ6HQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Qbw0Y4s1Wz6twG; Wed, 7 Jun 2023 19:52:29 +0200 (CEST) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Christian Moe Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, gerard.vermeulen@posteo.net, Timothy Subject: Re: [PATCH] ox-html.el: add option to embed SVG for CSS support in SVG In-Reply-To: <87h6rjqr9y.fsf@christianmoe.com> References: <871qip3u90.fsf@localhost> <87fs74j4la.fsf@christianmoe.com> <87cz27eka4.fsf@localhost> <87h6rjqr9y.fsf@christianmoe.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2023 17:57:15 +0000 Message-ID: <87v8fznojo.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1686160404; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=aOewnhTFAbYk0ywsLfh1ZTmgvYDAh+EzYWVPplqAS/+tCp88EIGRZP1FX/DhMnpxYIJ+Cm m6VcLLks3EoktRTE/O2MIXJUFTlpe1usE8y29A0Z+Uq0azkTmdl8zDD5mqlgSpzXjaksLu qfn494aD9azNLdbfv8lMfYlSl2eIdIDp9SP/au0rHmoIxNB8QdCOxRvZk4f15nd+2RpZCX l0pCzl7Eq3/RZz1XcY/KFILS71QcrE6mutIoBmX8hEHN9ldws9ZkMrdRrcVI55CEWKFUJ0 xaTTOYS3Mz0m74RIu4A9LxVPFZpn8hUXpOHwbV2HDiH9Z9OKQgAyrEvFKxX98A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=aKuDWyLc; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1686160404; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=8HCqtxdqOZYSfZ3qEhrhN7gD4c0DFg6Db1vR5sRtPaw=; b=ikBrrumsA6yvaHCscy7QqsAU6A3fd7eQhX2zvZSGpZQVUE5gdn6bEyWfeA1l0VawY7L8Lx mJ3uavDXhMuIYe3lICK/sklGCutUpppL2ZdUeJQE8A5ShhUuA3+e9P1Ge94VZObXBvrY/4 EWFQKwJh3LcjCdoYIMpWzJAhesMBXdPhMQJt9N3L7LCNNuznaz8lGlBOIrizFGu1PBc33Z w8VWel4010ivFE5ZPFGtSNX5X2mg2YLND1oxFEf/rxbLLkjtQIzvZcukyoyRuY0k2kIjz4 Bjiaj3P4sEv5pjtpwUBKvle+LqcTEPk3/ygTtGXincjdBt7q88JU82tf8J5Axw== Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=aKuDWyLc; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -7.66 X-Spam-Score: -7.66 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: BA3A843430 X-TUID: IYmwZwQ+fJ2T Christian Moe writes: >> Reading the linked threads, it seems that has its own >> downsides. Why is it strictly better then? > > I'm not sure it's strictly better. > > The problem in the linked threads was with scaling, and I don't think it > applies anymore. As I just tested in Firefox, at least, I can control > the size of Gerard's SVG illustration perfectly well by setting CSS > height and width attributes on an . That ship sailed long time ago. Now, switching back to will be a breaking change that should be justified. Mind that we use "img" tag for all images, not just svg. For now, you are just pointing that will inherit CSS of the page. But there will be downsides you mentioned, like absence of alt attribute (which is a big deal - we do not want to compromise accessibility for blind users - see https://orgmode.org/list/CAJcAo8uTOpEazLNCr0t1kFqPGTLz=G=aDnKLhuo1-Ura8-m7-Q@mail.gmail.com or https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/87czew3w5l.fsf@localhost/ ) Also, https://www.w3schools.com/TAgs/tag_object.asp explicitly recommends against for images in favor or . Finally, I can see that there are ways to use CSS on img+svg: https://blog.union.io/code/2017/08/10/img-svg-fill/ > - For Org to extract and embed the SVG means more things that can break > (though I admit that it can be made a lot less fragile than the > #+INCLUDE hack) and when they do break, it's an Org problem. With > Org just needs to properly format the tags; if it does, the > rest is the browser's responsibility. May you elaborate? > - If the external SVG file is modified, with embedding all files > referencing it need to be exported again for the change to take > effect. With linking to the external file, all that is > needed is refreshing the browser. That's why the proposed patch does not turn the embedding on by default. But some people do want embedding to make html self-contained, if not for CSS. Note that I am inclined to accept the patch for reasons different from the motivation of the patch author. Especially, if the patch gets extended to allow embedding raster images as well. > - Readable, uncluttered HTML is nice; huge, unreadable stretches of SVG > aren't. Sure, if users want uncluttered HTML. Some users do. Some wants the opposite. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at