From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Rasmus Subject: Re: Standardize #+BIBLIOGRAPHY line Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 23:51:26 +0200 Message-ID: <87txjmb6w1.fsf@gmx.us> References: <87k3kjyr37.fsf@gmail.com> <87hafn55l0.fsf@gmail.com> <87ip02wx96.fsf@gmail.com> <874nbm67rq.fsf@gmail.com> <87hafmwuhs.fsf@gmx.us> <87hafmpnh7.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59968) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V1O0z-0000nd-66 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 17:51:36 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V1O0w-0008LD-9u for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 17:51:33 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:51955) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V1O0v-0008L0-Qb for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 17:51:30 -0400 Received: from pank ([85.178.248.160]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MKLeM-1V0qJi0OZi-001lJf for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 23:51:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87hafmpnh7.fsf@gmail.com> (Jambunathan K.'s message of "Mon, 22 Jul 2013 21:59:24 +0530") List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: kjambunathan@gmail.com Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Jambunathan, I'll just reply to your four emails in one. Jambunathan K writes: > Rasmus writes: > >> The system should exhibit some flexibility supporting e.g. notes, >> parencite (prenote, key, year, postnote) and textcite key (prenote, >> year, postnote). But there could be others. E.g. someone mentioned >> using DOIs etc. > > I am not a scholar. I have never used Bibliographies before nor do I > foresee that I would have a need for it. OK. > If someone is keen, it wouldn't be difficult to compile a common cases > of "what" of citation specification. Atleast the minimal that the > community itself has used in the past. > > I want to include year, > page, some phrase =3D> Output should look like this - both > in cite Intext & Reference. >From a social science point of view and using the biblatex manual as a reference. (k is one or more keys below, K is the author, x,y are strings). - textcite k :pre x :post y =E2=86=92 K (pre, year, post) - parencite k :p x :post y =E2=86=92 (pre, K, year post) - cite k :pre x :post y =E2=86=92 K pre K year post - footcite k :pre x :post y =E2=86=92 [fn::pre K Year post.] - citeauthor k :pre x :post y =E2=86=92 pre K post - citeyear k :pre x :post y =E2=86=92 pre year post Biblatex also has a autocite that switches between parencite and footcite depending on the loaded style.=20 In real sciences they often use [n] where n corresponds to the nth entry of the bibliography. Only cite is needed. (Correct me if I'm wrong). But the formatting is really not the job of Org, but whatever is choose in by the backend (perhaps except for ascii). CLS/Citeproc can be used for style and formatting in Libreoffice, html and probably text, but may rely on. It's what Zotero uses for formatting. Here's a nice example of citeproc-js clearly showing that the processing should be left for better tools - citeproc-js examples :: http://gsl-nagoya-u.net/http/pub/citeproc-demo= /demo.html - citeproc-js home with info :: https://bitbucket.org/fbennett/citepro= c-js/wiki/Home - biblatex examples :: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/cont= rib/biblatex/doc/examples Unfortunately, the Internets say that CLS isn't supported by LaTeX. . . There's some work on Zotero integration to org: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/72538 and this one I just saw (org-zotero.el): https://bitbucket.org/egh/zotero-plain Jambunathan K writes: >> As expressed elsewhere I think >> >> [cite:key :pre xxx :post yyy :mycrazykey zzz] >> >> is the most desirable syntax. > > Where would the pre, post text would go. See above. > Will it go as part of "in text" or will it go in to References list or > both. For command line based processing, I see foresee issues with: > > 1. Multiple keys. Why reinvent the wheel? These issues have been dealt with by people who thought long about it. . . > 2. Stuff like "Ibid." I think ibid is mainly used in the humanities, but I'm on thin ice here. It's supported by Biblatex out of the box if so desired. Not an Org issue. It seems to also have been solved in by the CLS/Citeproc people. At least this page mentions ibid http://www.zotero.org/support/word_processor_plugin_usage --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- Type "ibid" to automatically select the last cited work. This works with all citation styles, regardless of whether =E2=80=9Cibid=E2=80=9D is a= ctually used in citations. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > 3. Sort order of keys. > 4. Numbering of entries. It's the job of the processor (e.g. bibier+biblatex or CLS file and citeproc-*). >> The system should exhibit some flexibility supporting e.g. notes, >> parencite (prenote, key, year, postnote) and textcite key (prenote, >> year, postnote). But there could be others. E.g. someone mentioned >> using DOIs etc. > >> I'd be willing to put in work on ox-bibliography, although I don't >> know if my 'skillz' suffice. > > This is just escaping :-). You already have some ideas on "what"s and > "how"s. You put "what" in "what" and "how" in "how". This esacped me.=20 > IME, Confusion, lethargy or escapism starts when "what" gets mixed > with "how". "Collection" can happen now. "Processing" can happen > later. Jambunathan K writes: > Jambunathan K writes: > >> Will it go as part of "in text" or will it go in to References list or >> both. For command line based processing, I see foresee issues with: >> >> 1. Multiple keys. >> 2. Stuff like "Ibid." >> 3. Sort order of keys. >> 4. Numbering of entries. > > To add to that list, will Citation entry be intermixed as a footnote > with other regular footnotes. IMO no, it would be way to painful to have to go to then end. Currently I do C-c C-) and Reftex opens. I select a type. I give a search word click RET and select the x keys that I want. It inserts as [[CITE:k1,k2,...kX]] where CITE is usually parencite or textcite. =E2=80=93Rasmus PS: Your posts do not show up on the archive cf. http://news.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode -- May the Force be with you