Re: Standardize #+BIBLIOGRAPHY line

[Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us>]

Jambunathan,

I'll just reply to your four emails in one.

Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com> writes:

> Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
>
>> The system should exhibit some flexibility supporting e.g. notes,
>> parencite (prenote, key, year, postnote) and textcite key (prenote,
>> year, postnote).  But there could be others.  E.g. someone mentioned
>> using DOIs etc.
>
> I am not a scholar.  I have never used Bibliographies before nor do I
> foresee that I would have a need for it.

OK.

> If someone is keen, it wouldn't be difficult to compile a common cases
> of "what" of citation specification.  Atleast the minimal that the
> community itself has used in the past.
>
>     I want to include year,
>     page, some phrase          =>    Output should look like this - both
>     in cite                          Intext & Reference.

From a social science point of view and using the biblatex manual as a
reference.  (k is one or more keys below, K is the author, x,y are
strings).

     - textcite k :pre x :post y   → K (pre, year, post)
     - parencite k :p x :post y    → (pre, K, year post)
     - cite k :pre x :post y       → K pre K year post
     - footcite k :pre x :post y   → [fn::pre K Year post.]
     - citeauthor k :pre x :post y → pre K post
     - citeyear k :pre x :post y   → pre year post

Biblatex also has a autocite that switches between parencite and
footcite depending on the loaded style. 

In real sciences they often use [n] where n corresponds to the nth
entry of the bibliography. Only cite is needed.  (Correct me if I'm
wrong).

But the formatting is really not the job of Org, but whatever is
choose in by the backend (perhaps except for ascii).

CLS/Citeproc can be used for style and formatting in Libreoffice, html
and probably text, but may rely on.  It's what Zotero uses for
formatting.  Here's a nice example of citeproc-js clearly showing that
the processing should be left for better tools

   - citeproc-js examples :: http://gsl-nagoya-u.net/http/pub/citeproc-demo/demo.html
     - citeproc-js home with info :: https://bitbucket.org/fbennett/citeproc-js/wiki/Home
   - biblatex examples :: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/biblatex/doc/examples


Unfortunately, the Internets say that CLS isn't supported by
LaTeX. . .  There's some work on Zotero integration to org:

       http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/72538

and this one I just saw (org-zotero.el):

    https://bitbucket.org/egh/zotero-plain

Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com> writes:

>> As expressed elsewhere I think
>>
>>   [cite:key :pre xxx :post yyy :mycrazykey zzz]
>>
>> is the most desirable syntax.
>
> Where would the pre, post text would go.

See above.

> Will it go as part of "in text" or will it go in to References list or
> both.  For command line based processing, I see foresee issues with:
>
>     1. Multiple keys.

Why reinvent the wheel?  These issues have been dealt with by people
who thought long about it. . .

>     2. Stuff like "Ibid."

I think ibid is mainly used in the humanities, but I'm on thin ice
here.  It's supported by Biblatex out of the box if so desired.  Not
an Org issue.  It seems to also have been solved in by the
CLS/Citeproc people.  At least this page mentions ibid

        http://www.zotero.org/support/word_processor_plugin_usage

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
Type "ibid" to automatically select the last cited work. This works
with all citation styles, regardless of whether “ibid” is actually
used in citations.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---


>     3. Sort order of keys.
>     4. Numbering of entries.

It's the job of the processor (e.g. bibier+biblatex or CLS file and
citeproc-*).


>> The system should exhibit some flexibility supporting e.g. notes,
>> parencite (prenote, key, year, postnote) and textcite key (prenote,
>> year, postnote).  But there could be others.  E.g. someone mentioned
>> using DOIs etc.
>
>> I'd be willing to put in work on ox-bibliography, although I don't
>> know if my 'skillz' suffice.
>
> This is just escaping :-).  You already have some ideas on "what"s and
> "how"s.  You put "what" in "what" and "how" in "how".

This esacped me. 

> IME, Confusion, lethargy or escapism starts when "what" gets mixed
> with "how".  "Collection" can happen now.  "Processing" can happen
> later.


Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com> writes:

> Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Will it go as part of "in text" or will it go in to References list or
>> both.  For command line based processing, I see foresee issues with:
>>
>>     1. Multiple keys.
>>     2. Stuff like "Ibid."
>>     3. Sort order of keys.
>>     4. Numbering of entries.
>
> To add to that list, will Citation entry be intermixed as a footnote
> with other regular footnotes.

IMO no, it would be way to painful to have to go to then end.
Currently I do C-c C-) and Reftex opens.  I select a type.  I give a
search word click RET and select the x keys that I want.  It inserts
as [[CITE:k1,k2,...kX]] where CITE is usually parencite or textcite.

–Rasmus

PS: Your posts do not show up on the archive
cf. http://news.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode

--
May the Force be with you