From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id 0DTiIl+ssGHNJgAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 08 Dec 2021 14:00:15 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id OCifHl+ssGFKbQAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 08 Dec 2021 13:00:15 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E3723518A for ; Wed, 8 Dec 2021 14:00:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:46272 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1muwYP-0002Cj-7y for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2021 08:00:13 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38644) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1muwTv-0007OS-3r for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2021 07:55:35 -0500 Received: from [2a00:1450:4864:20::12f] (port=45814 helo=mail-lf1-x12f.google.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1muwTp-0008H6-GG for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2021 07:55:31 -0500 Received: by mail-lf1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id m27so5364700lfj.12 for ; Wed, 08 Dec 2021 04:55:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=sIOJF/1xRuIFKxm/ctOlnpDM6zLj5peFfqkdN02rpmE=; b=Y1kWR24r53e8VhfI0p3i8KQUcI54I+2i0OB++vE8kFdsmxIs2lm4APeHXdYZo1Vj9O u1ORY7siX7VN5pwQKxkKP7VpvZRfPz7n2PIRhCauJy9jFo90IRsjyrUYJsIL1reRmDVB sK5Cq3kzO/Na8NA0AsTEGjY5tXizxY1ekg0HEiracORa09YgvbAl5nMgbyqsvlmJJryh 1MOTx1Lyu9o6V5wD6BhaWmItcMq5RuwHXq3aNdrgMoIukJZKFusAhMeLL9pAgeimjZ5E FGosqt0WZi/6aME253VfFar4Tnx9Wl7wM7pRWKV9kf/UIvqT7ik6oBoyVYmrmuHnh9iW tFJQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=sIOJF/1xRuIFKxm/ctOlnpDM6zLj5peFfqkdN02rpmE=; b=piBsK0z4KxYDFM8zGr7U4i23pJqSgUnZFUncTWQgfEtMlVBgSRh1tFpDG0vrj52HhN hjyJbA7sqXwnG1rcHX2hUfj5TruP6Dqycs03b8Dz7sBBpgjvdeKZE/8DmSjTGwm3Roqx mOaFzQDij2wWpYsRqh5XeIX7yzDmFHVIjkqeuuwVfgk5/j4byAEMfomoXLmu+8JpAYIj 6ISEc9cyKLAdvttQPvmxXukpUjlQCEp+qVwKoGDzs0qqYsw6zrbOGi/NyVgrU1erDC5+ PcJr60Si38FhKSUgiIO5Q38KRhEQ8YXiXgHtUGJel/p4gDzS5Vdck1MT7JC5foL8+udM TWZg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531EIn7jg7BaxNZmPV7iCQ3zg/7zKTyt2SpxQKldxCBV4yW7TQzj VmLrznsENpJmryBKMvdD7GH/1Iboo5rqJgTj X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwpt8rQ4lKVfBml68Pj0zauQoviTRGeqhqbKpxTrtbuCMw0KrSsEMhZxgKwv0yjkEzFL29/dQ== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:5049:: with SMTP id a9mr47632209lfm.666.1638968127163; Wed, 08 Dec 2021 04:55:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([141.105.67.194]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id br24sm249365lfb.104.2021.12.08.04.55.26 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 08 Dec 2021 04:55:26 -0800 (PST) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Gerry Agbobada Subject: Re: Concrete suggestions to improve Org mode third-party integration :: an afterthought following Karl Voit's Orgdown proposal In-Reply-To: <281717e0-0fef-4904-bd3d-5ac9968051ae@www.fastmail.com> References: <87tufnbj1w.fsf@localhost> <87sfv75s4r.fsf@posteo.net> <87o85vbb9a.fsf@localhost> <87y24zs40r.fsf@posteo.net> <87lf0zb6fq.fsf@localhost> <87pmqasws7.fsf@posteo.net> <878rwyi8bt.fsf@posteo.net> <87r1aqnu3q.fsf@gmail.com> <8735n6i4br.fsf@posteo.net> <796107.1638785063@apollo2.minshall.org> <87tufl6apx.fsf@posteo.net> <281717e0-0fef-4904-bd3d-5ac9968051ae@www.fastmail.com> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2021 20:56:50 +0800 Message-ID: <87tufj5k6l.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:1450:4864:20::12f (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::12f; envelope-from=yantar92@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x12f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." 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Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1638968415; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=sIOJF/1xRuIFKxm/ctOlnpDM6zLj5peFfqkdN02rpmE=; b=hJ6p5AssGSLheJzhDdEjSJ71vZP3rfON40s4eBY+/O9HxS9DSlxTa+aWIE5+YwTn1fjQFo BmCsycWa69WTT7nA3xsKQoSQIEoBAnn1bWstLJAxReV2spiQLExBUQX6wNy/mn1lvMvrH8 1r9/aQi0x82lmHO1vsk6e5EkruvRrOI/dGREskeNGjMVDqx7fqI8hmoOZXRaDzO9L32pd2 bHoywDt8pwrpAUy2ExIjoqXDMyxMjBnDdbi5X7AYNCON1rAfTULuAOcXyQn0gCOggznn6R 1WVpIYRNqiRL683OKCcaxe6USPHxt3Wa4ruUH5Fu8ERi9MVi4zVyNaJpHaHRqA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1638968415; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Jg0WCTfyvyd+3jMuPdM/DQsiBiyf0r4CalyzhmrXNqRIkq2FYxydsTEUadMdiRdJDXlL3V PWK27XV1pe6kpcT62BGypo05kn0o3Z/Czcz+2ZU6jHuf0bQmOvkT9qInGeuhsvqSJWG66T GBoSAGhT8GIuW0zTNe/c9E1iaEZsJLxJT56GfE/U3bg5ETZPCZC6f5AogwcF4WrnSqZVFJ UlAcCV7LHXCzBaIpz3EXd8FCy6gD1juwhN7lJOHfwpIz+4kRHWlfYsabej6yFi/Z2btt2N Us37FmEzY7nsLHL2Ow4Ibhc3YRjgdS5TSpxTKOukJ1ZixLqO5WxYKyT68SeauQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Y1kWR24r; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.65 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Y1kWR24r; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 0E3723518A X-Spam-Score: -3.65 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: 05RngoONx0Z6 "Gerry Agbobada" writes: > Just not to leave this be a wild guess or a lone data-point, I=E2=80=AFwa= nt to say that I=E2=80=99m exactly in the same case, and I really don=E2=80= =99t want to bring up anything I=E2=80=AFdo related to org-mode here becaus= e of this kind of backlash without which I feel really better. Too bad I gu= ess, I=E2=80=99ll just try to communicate here and there through github iss= ues as I=E2=80=99ve been doing until now. I am sorry about your experience. Judging from your previous emails, you are very interested in grammar parsing and asked several questions about external implementations of Org grammar. Note that your emails (even unanswered) did not go unnoticed. The main problem is that we do not actually have a consistent uniform grammar, we just _mostly_ have it. Nicolas is making a long-time effort to write the formal grammar specification while simultaneously identifying and moving bits of vague parsing Elisp routines into org-element.el (which he created). I am too partially interested in making Org parser more uniform and knowing the actual state of underlying Elisp code makes me reluctant to reply to "official parser" requests immediately (all those email replies are in my todo-list). This thread is partially a realisation that without even half-cooked and accessible grammar description, things can spin out of control. Note that one of my ideas is creating a set of testing files that should be easier to contribute without diving into org testing code. As I mentioned in my other call for patches [1], improvements to existing patch suite (including testing the grammar) would be very much appreciated and definitely not frowned on. [1] https://list.orgmode.org/871r342z6g.fsf@localhost/T/#t Best, Ihor P.S. One of grammar-related emails in my todo-list: ****** TICKLER [#A] Tom Gillespie [ML:Org mode] (2021) A formal grammar for= Org :BOOKMARK:misc:email: SCHEDULED: <2021-12-20 Mon> :PROPERTIES: :TITLE: A formal grammar for Org :BTYPE: misc :ID: ML:Org-mode-2021-formal-grammar-org-171 :AUTHOR: Tom Gillespie :CREATED: [2021-09-22 Wed 13:27] :HOWPUBLISHED: ML:Org mode :LINK: notmuch:id:CA+G3_PNj6Pekqv+tWFkwbD778XhW9WSfx+kjJhjSOREpLHUpRQ@m= ail.gmail.com :NOTE: Online; accessed 22 September 2021 :TYPEALT: email :YEAR: 2021 :DRILL_LAST_INTERVAL: 35.8039 :DRILL_REPEATS_SINCE_FAIL: 5 :DRILL_TOTAL_REPEATS: 7 :DRILL_FAILURE_COUNT: 1 :DRILL_AVERAGE_QUALITY: 3.143 :DRILL_EASE: 1.9 :END: :LOGBOOK: - Refiled on [2021-09-22 Wed 14:17] :END: (7 times postponed...)