[Babel] now understands org-mode lists

[Babel] now understands org-mode lists

[Eric Schulte]

Hi,

I've just pushed up a small commit (including minimal documentation)
which teaches code blocks how to read and write Org-mode lists.  The
following example should demonstrate the new behavior.


#+results: a-list
- org-mode
- and
- babel


#+source: a-list
#+begin_src emacs-lisp :var lst=a-list :results list
  (reverse lst)
#+end_src


This is just a quick first pass at this functionality, there are still
some unanswered questions, such as if and how code blocks should
differentiate between ordered and unordered lists (ordered get an index
for each item?), how nested lists should be represented etc...

Best -- Eric

Re: [Babel] now understands org-mode lists

[Jambunathan K]

"Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I've just pushed up a small commit (including minimal documentation)
> which teaches code blocks how to read and write Org-mode lists.  The
> following example should demonstrate the new behavior.
>
>
> #+results: a-list
> - org-mode
> - and
> - babel
>
>
> #+source: a-list
> #+begin_src emacs-lisp :var lst=a-list :results list
>   (reverse lst)
> #+end_src
>

Why not call the underlying type an 'orglist'. One can for example think
of orgpropeties etc etc.

Btw, for the sake of illustration, how would one convert a numbered list
to an alphabetical list or an unordered list. Convert some thing like

1. One
   1. OneOne
3. Two
4. Three

to 

- One
  - One
- Two
- Three

or 

1. One
   1.1 OneOne
2. Two
3. Three

C-c C-c on a list currently renumbers the list which I find quite
useful. May be there is a way to 'rebind' it so that it not only
renumbers but renumbers with a different style (that the user is
comfortable with). Think 'replace-region' for example.

Jambunathan K.

>
> This is just a quick first pass at this functionality, there are still
> some unanswered questions, such as if and how code blocks should
> differentiate between ordered and unordered lists (ordered get an index
> for each item?), how nested lists should be represented etc...
>
> Best -- Eric
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: [Babel] now understands org-mode lists

[Jambunathan K]

Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com> writes:

> "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I've just pushed up a small commit (including minimal documentation)
>> which teaches code blocks how to read and write Org-mode lists.  The
>> following example should demonstrate the new behavior.
>>
>>
>> #+results: a-list
>> - org-mode
>> - and
>> - babel
>>
>>
>> #+source: a-list
>> #+begin_src emacs-lisp :var lst=a-list :results list
>>   (reverse lst)
>> #+end_src
>>
>
> Why not call the underlying type an 'orglist'. One can for example think
> of orgpropeties etc etc.
>
> Btw, for the sake of illustration, how would one convert a numbered list
> to an alphabetical list or an unordered list. Convert some thing like
>
> 1. One
>    1. OneOne
> 3. Two
> 4. Three
>
> to 
>
> - One
>   - One
> - Two
> - Three
>
> or 
>
> 1. One
>    1.1 OneOne
> 2. Two
> 3. Three
>
> C-c C-c on a list currently renumbers the list which I find quite
> useful. May be there is a way to 'rebind' it so that it not only
> renumbers but renumbers with a different style (that the user is
> comfortable with). Think 'replace-region' for example.
>

Let's say one wants to number the lists using prime numbers. So one
could have two lists.

# list1 (may be generated programmatically)

1. 2
2. 3
3. 5
4. 7
5. 11
6. 13


# list2 (user-typed)
1. Carsten
2. Bastien
3. Eric Schulte
4. Dan Davison
5. Eric S Faga
6. Samuel Wales 

and juxtapose them together to get a custom numbering as follows

2. Carsten
3. Bastien
5. Eric Schulte
7. Dan Davison
11. Eric S Faga
13. Samuel Wales

All this with a C-c C-c on list2.

What this example does is essentially relate a 'list of styles' to a
'list of text elements' and create a 'custom-styled list'.

Jambunathan K.

> Jambunathan K.
>
>>
>> This is just a quick first pass at this functionality, there are still
>> some unanswered questions, such as if and how code blocks should
>> differentiate between ordered and unordered lists (ordered get an index
>> for each item?), how nested lists should be represented etc...
>>
>> Best -- Eric
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: [Babel] now understands org-mode lists

[Eric Schulte]

Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com> writes:

> Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I've just pushed up a small commit (including minimal documentation)
>>> which teaches code blocks how to read and write Org-mode lists.  The
>>> following example should demonstrate the new behavior.
>>>
>>>
>>> #+results: a-list
>>> - org-mode
>>> - and
>>> - babel
>>>
>>>
>>> #+source: a-list
>>> #+begin_src emacs-lisp :var lst=a-list :results list
>>>   (reverse lst)
>>> #+end_src
>>>
>>
>> Why not call the underlying type an 'orglist'. One can for example think
>> of orgpropeties etc etc.
>>
>> Btw, for the sake of illustration, how would one convert a numbered list
>> to an alphabetical list or an unordered list. Convert some thing like
>>
>> 1. One
>>    1. OneOne
>> 3. Two
>> 4. Three
>>
>> to 
>>
>> - One
>>   - One
>> - Two
>> - Three
>>
>> or 
>>
>> 1. One
>>    1.1 OneOne
>> 2. Two
>> 3. Three
>>
>> C-c C-c on a list currently renumbers the list which I find quite
>> useful. May be there is a way to 'rebind' it so that it not only
>> renumbers but renumbers with a different style (that the user is
>> comfortable with). Think 'replace-region' for example.
>>
>
> Let's say one wants to number the lists using prime numbers.

is this possible with normal Org-mode lists?  I thought that numbered
lists automatically re-numbered themselves.

> So one could have two lists.
>
> # list1 (may be generated programmatically)
>
> 1. 2
> 2. 3
> 3. 5
> 4. 7
> 5. 11
> 6. 13
>
>
> # list2 (user-typed)
> 1. Carsten
> 2. Bastien
> 3. Eric Schulte
> 4. Dan Davison
> 5. Eric S Faga
> 6. Samuel Wales 
>
> and juxtapose them together to get a custom numbering as follows
>
> 2. Carsten
> 3. Bastien
> 5. Eric Schulte
> 7. Dan Davison
> 11. Eric S Faga
> 13. Samuel Wales
>

This seems like a problem more suited to tables.  Lists are inherently
one dimensional and the problem you pose is inherently two dimensional.

>
> All this with a C-c C-c on list2.
>
> What this example does is essentially relate a 'list of styles' to a
> 'list of text elements' and create a 'custom-styled list'.
>

I see what you're getting at, but rather than develop towards the most
complex conceivable use-case I prefer to keep things simple, only
introducing complexity when it seems "natural" and generally useful.  I
find that taking such a stingy approach to development tends to result
in simpler more maintainable code.

-- Eric

>
> Jambunathan K.
>
>> Jambunathan K.
>>
>>>
>>> This is just a quick first pass at this functionality, there are still
>>> some unanswered questions, such as if and how code blocks should
>>> differentiate between ordered and unordered lists (ordered get an index
>>> for each item?), how nested lists should be represented etc...
>>>
>>> Best -- Eric
>>>

Re: Re: [Babel] now understands org-mode lists

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

>> Let's say one wants to number the lists using prime numbers.

> is this possible with normal Org-mode lists? I thought that numbered
> lists automatically re-numbered themselves.

Sure it is !

2. [@2] This is
3. [@3] a prime-numbered
5. [@5] list.
57. [@57] Even Grothendiek's prime number is allowed!


The advantage of this, is that it still applies when exporting.

Regards,

-- Nicolas

Re: [Babel] now understands org-mode lists

[Jambunathan K]

> Let's say one wants to number the lists using prime numbers. So one
> could have two lists.
>
> # list1 (may be generated programmatically)
>
> 1. 2
> 2. 3
> 3. 5
> 4. 7
> 5. 11
> 6. 13
>
>
> # list2 (user-typed)
> 1. Carsten
> 2. Bastien
> 3. Eric Schulte
> 4. Dan Davison
> 5. Eric S Faga
> 6. Samuel Wales 
>
> and juxtapose them together to get a custom numbering as follows
>
> 2. Carsten
> 3. Bastien
> 5. Eric Schulte
> 7. Dan Davison
> 11. Eric S Faga
> 13. Samuel Wales

May be the juxtaposition happens as overlays. So basically the custom
bullets (2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13 etc) are overlays over 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 etc
so that Org still recognize them as lists.

Apologies for being so gross.

To summarize, what I am really thinking is this:

1. Use C-c C-c (org-dwim) with a prefix modifier key that makes it
   (org-custom-dwim). 
2. The custom dwim pops up an easy menu that is context dependent. For
   example, for the list case it could offer a choice of numbering
   styles - alphabetical, subsection etc.
3. Make Babel recognize implicit arguments and results. So when on a
   Orgmode list (or when the active region is a Ormode list), Babel
   creates a virtual 'input' var that represents the textual list and
   does 'replace-region' for the results block. So there is no more
   '#+results' that the user sees in the text document
4. The easy menu keys in (2) maps to 'library of babel' calls that
   behave as in (3) which creates needed overlays.
5. Make the exporters (specifically the ASCII exporter) to use overlays
   to emit the custom-styled lists.

The above idea is more or less along the lines that I exchanges with you
a few months back where I (tried) articulating the idea of Babel as 'a
text manipulator' of Orgmode entities like headlines etc.

Jambunathan K.

>
> All this with a C-c C-c on list2.
>
> What this example does is essentially relate a 'list of styles' to a
> 'list of text elements' and create a 'custom-styled list'.
>
> Jambunathan K.
>
>> Jambunathan K.
>>
>>>
>>> This is just a quick first pass at this functionality, there are still
>>> some unanswered questions, such as if and how code blocks should
>>> differentiate between ordered and unordered lists (ordered get an index
>>> for each item?), how nested lists should be represented etc...
>>>
>>> Best -- Eric
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: [Babel] now understands org-mode lists

[Eric Schulte]

Hi Jambunathan,

Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com> writes:

[...]
>
> To summarize, what I am really thinking is this:
>
> 1. Use C-c C-c (org-dwim) with a prefix modifier key that makes it
>    (org-custom-dwim). 
> 2. The custom dwim pops up an easy menu that is context dependent. For
>    example, for the list case it could offer a choice of numbering
>    styles - alphabetical, subsection etc.
> 3. Make Babel recognize implicit arguments and results. So when on a
>    Orgmode list (or when the active region is a Ormode list), Babel
>    creates a virtual 'input' var that represents the textual list and
>    does 'replace-region' for the results block. So there is no more
>    '#+results' that the user sees in the text document
> 4. The easy menu keys in (2) maps to 'library of babel' calls that
>    behave as in (3) which creates needed overlays.
> 5. Make the exporters (specifically the ASCII exporter) to use overlays
>    to emit the custom-styled lists.
>
> The above idea is more or less along the lines that I exchanges with you
> a few months back where I (tried) articulating the idea of Babel as 'a
> text manipulator' of Orgmode entities like headlines etc.
>

Interesting, a couple of thoughts...

- I think that your idea of a quick access menu for library of babel
  calls which converts the objects (table, list, etc...) under the point
  into an implicit argument to the code block could make lob functions
  much more accessible and easily usable.

- I'm not so sure about the use of `replace-region' in (3) as I can
  imagine that there would be cases where you would rather perform some
  operation on the input data for pasting elsewhere in the document.

- I can see how this would quickly lead to a desire for type hinting on
  library of babel code blocks, e.g. if my point in on a table I don't
  want to see all of this LOB functions which operate on lists.  such
  type hinting could easily be implemented as another header argument

- This would certainly be helped by the ability to pass un-named
  arguments to code blocks (something I've been meaning to implement
  anyways)

I agree this is an interesting way to use Babel.  Unfortunately I simply
don't have the time to develop this myself, however if you want to start
developing in this direction I'm happy to help in terms of answering
questions and adding features on the babel side of the fence.

Best -- Eric

Re: [Babel] now understands org-mode lists

[Eric Schulte]

Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com> writes:

> "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I've just pushed up a small commit (including minimal documentation)
>> which teaches code blocks how to read and write Org-mode lists.  The
>> following example should demonstrate the new behavior.
>>
>>
>> #+results: a-list
>> - org-mode
>> - and
>> - babel
>>
>>
>> #+source: a-list
>> #+begin_src emacs-lisp :var lst=a-list :results list
>>   (reverse lst)
>> #+end_src
>>
>
> Why not call the underlying type an 'orglist'. One can for example think
> of orgpropeties etc etc.
>

I was just thinking that list is simpler and shorter, we need not prefix
everything in the Org domain with the prefix org.  Is there a regular
list that you are concerned this name will conflate with.

>
> Btw, for the sake of illustration, how would one convert a numbered list
> to an alphabetical list or an unordered list. Convert some thing like
>
> 1. One
>    1. OneOne
> 3. Two
> 4. Three
>
> to 
>
> - One
>   - One
> - Two
> - Three
>
> or 
>
> 1. One
>    1.1 OneOne
> 2. Two
> 3. Three
>
> C-c C-c on a list currently renumbers the list which I find quite
> useful. May be there is a way to 'rebind' it so that it not only
> renumbers but renumbers with a different style (that the user is
> comfortable with). Think 'replace-region' for example.
>

I haven't thought of how these `meta' or `style' properties of lists
should be represented, I am hoping that some good ideas for this will
come from the list (the mailing list).

The most obvious solution seems to be a new header argument
":list-style" or somesuch, which could take options for all org-mode
list style types.  The backend uses the `org-list-to-generic' function
which already exists inside of Org-mode and has a great deal of options
so ideally any solution will serve as a thin layer to pass options
directly from the user through to this function.  The main question is
"what's the best syntax".

Thanks -- Eric

>
> Jambunathan K.
>
>>
>> This is just a quick first pass at this functionality, there are still
>> some unanswered questions, such as if and how code blocks should
>> differentiate between ordered and unordered lists (ordered get an index
>> for each item?), how nested lists should be represented etc...
>>
>> Best -- Eric
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: [Babel] now understands org-mode lists

[Jambunathan K]

"Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes:

> Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I've just pushed up a small commit (including minimal documentation)
>>> which teaches code blocks how to read and write Org-mode lists.  The
>>> following example should demonstrate the new behavior.
>>>
>>>
>>> #+results: a-list
>>> - org-mode
>>> - and
>>> - babel
>>>
>>>
>>> #+source: a-list
>>> #+begin_src emacs-lisp :var lst=a-list :results list
>>>   (reverse lst)
>>> #+end_src
>>>
>>
>> Why not call the underlying type an 'orglist'. One can for example think
>> of orgpropeties etc etc.
>>
>
> I was just thinking that list is simpler and shorter, we need not prefix
> everything in the Org domain with the prefix org.  Is there a regular
> list that you are concerned this name will conflate with.
>

Probably I just jumped to a quick conclusion based on a naive
understanding of the description.

I thought that `results' are `output' as `orgmode lists'.

Our mails have crossed. I have tried answering in the last of my
previous mails most of the questions that you have raised.

Ignore me if I don't make any sense :-). 

To reiterate:
1. Alphabetical lists has already surfaced and a patch is in
   progress.
2. ascii backend is the dumbest one that doesn't offer any custom style
   associations like HTML or OpenOffice. I find the ASCII backend the
   most useful of all the backends.
3. The easy menu map is one Orgmode already uses to capture
   'polymorphic' behaviour as in C-c C-e binding and may be this could
   be used for choosing styles (from the user side).
4. The new feature could be used for 'ingestion' of custom-styles. So a
   power-user has better control.

Jambunathan K.

Re: [Babel] now understands org-mode lists

[Eric Schulte]

Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com> writes:

[...]
>
> To reiterate:
> 1. Alphabetical lists has already surfaced and a patch is in
>    progress.
> 2. ascii backend is the dumbest one that doesn't offer any custom style
>    associations like HTML or OpenOffice. I find the ASCII backend the
>    most useful of all the backends.
> 3. The easy menu map is one Orgmode already uses to capture
>    'polymorphic' behaviour as in C-c C-e binding and may be this could
>    be used for choosing styles (from the user side).
> 4. The new feature could be used for 'ingestion' of custom-styles. So a
>    power-user has better control.
>

I think that this may be better implemented directly as an emacs-lisp
function rather than through a Babel code block.

Best -- Eric

>
> Jambunathan K.

Re: [Babel] now understands org-mode lists

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

>>>>> Eric Schulte writes:

> I've just pushed up a small commit (including minimal documentation)
> which teaches code blocks how to read and write Org-mode lists.

Quickly looking at your commit, may I suggest that you do not make use
of `org-list-in-item-p-with-indent'?

This is a low-level function, and it might be modified or even deleted
in a few weeks, as I'm planning to dig into lists again. On the other
hand, `org-in-item-p' won't.

Moreover, the latter checks `org-list-ending-method' whereas the
former doesn't.

Regards,

-- Nicolas

Re: [Babel] now understands org-mode lists

[Eric Schulte]

Changed, Thanks -- Eric

Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:

> Hello,
>
>>>>>> Eric Schulte writes:
>
>> I've just pushed up a small commit (including minimal documentation)
>> which teaches code blocks how to read and write Org-mode lists.
>
> Quickly looking at your commit, may I suggest that you do not make use
> of `org-list-in-item-p-with-indent'?
>
> This is a low-level function, and it might be modified or even deleted
> in a few weeks, as I'm planning to dig into lists again. On the other
> hand, `org-in-item-p' won't.
>
> Moreover, the latter checks `org-list-ending-method' whereas the
> former doesn't.
>
> Regards,
>
> -- Nicolas