From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id aLwxLCIGY2A/XgEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 13:06:10 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id MDI2JiIGY2BdSgAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 11:06:10 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED4B519D32 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 13:06:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:56600 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lRCCF-0008Oe-Lq for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 07:06:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35850) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lRCBG-0008Ml-Ie for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 07:05:06 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:48515) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lRCBC-0006dc-QO for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 07:05:06 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F9822400FD for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 13:05:00 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1617102300; bh=t9SFI6X5a8wCBrZkvUgWQxTP2PLHxDdBYwYHuzgy6zo=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=KzNpLdDQ2WHHf8m76txeeyt84hasAkPIVE7ItqLVBCMQZdfpZSaMBCWZEax6LZCsV f80Xcgu6SOn6J+oExjnO7mTWdvSHPE+OyGx2dFLBVuxGF1QkNGJk5fzhgyCSapAk/E BurbE5QXOUBQXiTj3ZcVLOoOSnHbVYDV3EVJe+dX5vGa8vq9B+2rQNYFvHCQc/75HA 5cRysHVjV57nmtw3jT94mh9QjQ/mi7UPlxdRMgn0xLT4uInqQxSiGyimcNEUdqZ413 8Tp2BPO+R/ZtRw857bL2JpoOuHV8z7+Ih1X9vNm7H421JaqY9PCblNxuyD0PVEw1b/ gm5l5+6Si9+8Q== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4F8mn74RMBz9rxB; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 13:04:59 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Juan_Manuel_Mac=C3=ADas?= To: Eric S Fraga Subject: Re: About exporting References: <88a3facd-2f95-42b7-135a-d2ec6a730ba7@gmail.com> <87v999fth8.fsf@gmail.com> <8735wdmahi.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 13:04:58 +0200 In-Reply-To: <8735wdmahi.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> (Eric S. Fraga's message of "Tue, 30 Mar 2021 07:17:13 +0100") Message-ID: <87r1jwj411.fsf@posteo.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=maciaschain@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: orgmode Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1617102370; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=cyXgTErCVzyBCcXIDUttDmZLeFG9vV0c64W8bwYH6cs=; b=n/kpWkIDie6wiC8sUIHaArV1uTSihSkH7iuc1mCMxjceJdQW80BsmCzBMiNpA28J/d1ExY BYCWDqLrUps7bR03Tgm/fF4187GOcysnYxTC8bdVXbIg/k8DG1NxOAcDwLHy9AYy2DOF4e svYrP/CspEcX2QvfkahOU2EA5w25oFMNKmoxRBSNWpV0OeS4zkK920VCvEKTCsaZfLP/C0 foQ+X7MRf/RNmT0p2PVwMVe5qPZdK0vg6ZreW5uOrtLl2Zcua6DJbGthGc9PkpjVygUyyM GOwWeWXJ17AVF34FBAzbTx0CoqWhSswU8kAiqxEso571XBoyi56F99RbMiynSQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1617102370; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=UiEP2b/3DugVoh0uKG9RvLTVZpDgv6OAiXBWl2UzFmpew9EZufsKAvgBCNwIEcwGA9CfV6 vzh5W/1balaSYttprQXiqS7pNBcvTrZbiIc+1dd5Mhuoc52cHfwBPmwZnMsh5GaZdkZ13W KoZ5SoxKAJAymtTomEKVa9U2Liog8mfZ++HqGXUDaFFxnjbfJwF8aMyxtiH/L+BwmsCjgw gtgkdznlaNkcIl6lpwxmDIsZUC+EFSP+M7+kGXGXB+gQS8dep4tv8torvZelmQ1u9gbezr SJq1quwnPmVvaqK/4AbFkvCNb6WfDix9zt+YNDmHm3x17J25GQwaHEaZ7KMZ5Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=KzNpLdDQ; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.12 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=KzNpLdDQ; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: ED4B519D32 X-Spam-Score: -3.12 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: OnSepBayo7pg Eric S Fraga writes: > On Tuesday, 30 Mar 2021 at 09:06, Tim Cross wrote: >> The trick with Latex is to go with the flow, not against it. > > +1 > > This is the first thing I tell my students. LaTeX knows much much more > about how to make documents look good than any of us ever will. If you don't know anything about typography, perhaps it is preferable to let LaTeX do its work. With the standard classes (or non-standard ones, like Koma) and a few packages the result it will always be better than in a Word-style word processor. For example, TeX justifies paragraphs in a very more intelligent way, understanding the paragraph as a whole, and not line by line, as word processors do. In fact, the Plass-Knuth algorithm (see: http://www.eprg.org/G53DOC/pdfs/knuth-plass-breaking.pdf) from TeX was implemented by Adobe for its layout software InDesign. pdfTeX implemented, in addition, micro-typographic features (protrusion and expansion), based on the theories of the great German typographer Hermann Zapf (author of typefaces such as Palatino and Optima and friend of Donald Knuth). Those properties were picked up by LuaTeX, which in turn picked up the legacy of a TeX experimental variant (that I used quite a bit in the early 2000), Omega, later Aleph. So, yes, you can get very high-quality documents using LaTeX. And there is also ConTeXt, another TeX format with a radically different conception compared to LaTeX, more monolithic and, in certain aspects, more avant-garde. But that does not mean that LaTeX, used as is, produce a typographically finished result. LaTeX is the means, not the end. Of course, through packages we can adjust many things at a high level. An obvious example is the geometry package, but to establish good page dimensions you have to know what you are doing... But other things can only be adjusted by hand, visually, unless someday some AI comes to do that job ;-) A very typical example: the \raggedbottom option is almost never acceptable in a book. The \flushbottom option requires that the height of the composition box is a multiple of the line spacing. TeX also does very good work with the vertical stretch gaps (glues), but we also want to modify them depending on the chosen font, the main text body, etc. And a penalty of widow and orphan lines will also be desirable. There are many ways to do it (including packages), but the simplest is to add a couple of TeX primitives to the preamble, with these values: \widowpenalty=10000 \clubpenalty=10000 But if we have penalized widows or orphans we will get pages that have one line less, *unacceptable* in a book. That we will have to fix manually, probably adding a line to the paragraph (\looseness=1), but it will depend on the context. If we use LuaTeX we can apply things like the ones discussed in this thread: https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/372062/paragraph-callback-to-help-with-widows-orphans-hand-tuning There are, in short, many things in a 'standard' LaTeX document that require fine adjustment. Packages like lua-typo or impnattypo are helpful in this regard. But some typography skills are required. Of course, this knowledge is accessible to everyone. There are so many bibliography, but I would highly recommend the writings of Stanley Morison, author of the Times Roman and a great theorist of the modern typography. Of course, as for TeX, the TeX Book is always an almost obligatory (and exciting) read :-) Best regards, Juan Manuel