From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id XoLQAEE63mNdtAAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 04 Feb 2023 11:58:09 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id wNSTO0A63mORPwEA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 04 Feb 2023 11:58:08 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA00D15AF9 for ; Sat, 4 Feb 2023 11:58:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pOGEs-0001s1-3l; Sat, 04 Feb 2023 05:57:46 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pOGEo-0001rY-Ea for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Feb 2023 05:57:44 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pOGEm-00076H-HA for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Feb 2023 05:57:42 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C18F24057C for ; Sat, 4 Feb 2023 11:57:35 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1675508257; bh=X/y/L6xWOHbgbyWE7vxvrrNIGaeWz3kQbzt/7EOqKFA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=NkdbUFk2q7IXEukEuAhZmcwLljjo+oZvY0oQhQgs9JJlCIQ56WTazLjpuqu5P3dGB mlAjWqUqxtZNwcplOiKGUYq2wqQMcWQl2DghuyYtHg3Au4Xpah/N3l0mXhQbxJ0qfJ l0U0P/JDjz5t9sKQ+otx+0mpSf3esI3JZWMum1LuCrlCZTcuxuHN5228YS/p+s0xt5 H7Qgy/EOauHbcZRVE63EjcaGc7VCADEa6NUHOxGeWQWJPHg+lthhZuL18nWxsJMmz7 Lpz6XW2ibreJxrI3rS7UbrEut9UYdd94qPKTEnJWagmJf/MMK2nrvfNaUOIC0TpY+l fUX/8xXfgkqwg== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4P88cZ1Yvkz9rxB; Sat, 4 Feb 2023 11:57:33 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Jean Louis Cc: Christian Moe , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) In-Reply-To: References: <63ca1283.170a0220.5bc81.0fdd@mx.google.com> <87pmb9k8oi.fsf@tsdye.online> <3035CDD5-41DD-4516-9E4E-9E0DF16BE2E0@gmail.com> <87lelo8c9r.fsf@localhost> <2150768.1675077958@archlinux> <87tu063ox2.fsf@localhost> <87r0v9sio1.fsf@christianmoe.com> <87edr9lgq6.fsf@localhost> <87edr8qx75.fsf@localhost> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2023 10:58:10 +0000 Message-ID: <87r0v5g0jh.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1675508287; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=bsFs3z3gy2Dh+vkBNR58uB5TAdCZfTCZ98bHa5IUgGY=; b=scazb3mFYfwF3gjvgPtPx9Xo8PcWE9CDBze1Lsmc8OiKLhf4GFifuGcpVQJFRWVhhvFAE6 mY7jAzRMDP/NAa2Fq9z053lzVO4dTOMteMI6V4ZEgmR7UzDgNHsDmZIY+apspz9MzgGvUu hFzbXaYYhKZlsP69OInxhX7pEA3MykFUnzwQI2L/Iz4xTrSEXlM1k4UvLWZ8dzII2XOzwS XnhXsg/15TIGHKwE+J+cdiI+7++HaMYv2wMY1cB02s2TrE5HPFhbvvGyvGBFCdb5uceGCj luFbs7Gu0EdKXqBiXCMotILUplRqQsZOjnIXbTYcrVwIflO2CusHYFd9IPCO/g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=NkdbUFk2; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1675508287; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Bd4nN958GkEZZK3IB1gw117xBSNIwvDo7ORpFuNzkn/277VlaW5CytQXJ2JSWEIPR9rs1w rTwC1vtIubKP0Cq83bkDC9Tg2Lp5I0lB3uSE/ZFAfu+PooM2XCe8fnz89/wFsXQXs4jxX+ 5Xy3rUza7E+VuNDZOewEfdK83I5+LSZr870Ta4q/mPRpkrBKoSjw2xc+9x+gtlqhfMalXy EBTsSdKP9MtTeWYvWLEIbSOe7D3EXZ9PsT/KRKuWCiLePNzcHNcjcq/oJUNBGmtjaGCkp2 btEemEDYrKu5VrUYXP9VOcclYcN6q6BWvLLaq4yiPWeZPIxMfXCXVOxOGQXKRg== X-Migadu-Queue-Id: CA00D15AF9 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=NkdbUFk2; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.85 X-Spam-Score: -9.85 X-TUID: AO8pfe+yDidr Jean Louis writes: >> >> [2022-11-12 14:00 @UTC+2] >> >> [2022-11-12 14:00 @UTC-2:30] >> >>=20 >> >> are also fine within the proposed format. >> > >> > The above format is unclear to me. I look at timestamps every day, too >> > many, often change them. >> > >> > I cannot understand what you mean. >>=20 >> See "std offset" format for TZ environment variable. >> https://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/TZ-Variable.html > > I understand that information on hyperlink. > > I do not understand how it is related to "UTC", a with "UTC" people do > not put UTC offset. Well. "UTC" there is rather arbitrary, but _some_ abbreviation is required as per TZ spec. Could also be [2022-11-12 14:00 @BLAHBLAH+2] I used "UTC+2" because it is how offsets are often represented. For example, https://time.is/London is displaying the following: Time in London, United Kingdom now ... Time zone - Currently Greenwich Mean Time (GMT), UTC +0 - Daylight saving time (British Summer Time (BST), UTC +1) starts March= 26, 2023 Note UTC +0 and UTC +1. I've seen such format in multiple time websites. On the other hand, TZ POSIX is reverse from what is commonly meant when displaying UTC +1. > It is either UTC as time zone and offset can be considered only ZERO, > like +0, or it is NOT UTC as time zone, and there is offset to > understand what was really the UTC. This latter is also explained in > that hyperlink. > So what do you really mean with such time stamp? > You are right. From the point of view of TZ POSIX spec, UTC+2 is not UTC time zone and not a known time zone. Rather manual nautical time zone with arbitrary name and fixed UTC offset (+2). > I think it is incorrect time stamp. If you specify UTC, you do not > specify UTC offset.=20 It is a correct TZ value =F0=9F=A4=B7 --=20 Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at