From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id qKE8EEot6l+VUwAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 19:08:58 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id +LsIDEot6l97IwAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 19:08:58 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 99CEF9404C2 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 19:08:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:37244 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ktxt1-0001Kl-5l for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 14:08:55 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40964) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ktxsS-0001Kb-2C for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 14:08:20 -0500 Received: from libre.brussels ([144.76.234.112]:40306) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ktxsO-00077P-R0 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2020 14:08:19 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=libre.brussels; s=mail; t=1609182492; h=from:from:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=Dh9KhPkChWCRQoDeIy1grIVn/TqWBwQvzXcCanGFsrs=; b=JgL0y4+Wq54aElDxlo8OUH17udTbqUNACJ5hIyz8Lf4exiRKXiDIRM4JWilp78d4AAv9ez F72fsEQyu52rWNsoOyS7glz9LO7v3Am/O9faVUER/ND5UzvNa1J5pbX724qhShcIp6EHTk FqZkRsw3JnAvjhicUi2CvO4zRq+IF9o= References: <87tus6oxsg.fsf@posteo.net> <874kk6ynt1.fsf@mbork.pl> <87o8ieos9c.fsf@posteo.net> <87sg7pud3e.fsf@libre.brussels> <87v9clolyd.fsf@posteo.net> From: Jonathan McHugh To: Juan Manuel =?utf-8?Q?Mac=C3=ADas?= Subject: Re: Org to ConTeXt exporter? In-reply-to: <87v9clolyd.fsf@posteo.net> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2020 20:06:16 +0100 Message-ID: <87pn2tu4wn.fsf@libre.brussels> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=144.76.234.112; envelope-from=indieterminacy@libre.brussels; helo=libre.brussels X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: orgmode Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.22 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail (headers rsa verify failed) header.d=libre.brussels header.s=mail header.b=JgL0y4+W; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=libre.brussels (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 99CEF9404C2 X-Spam-Score: -0.22 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: Uh4cagpg4+iu Hello Juan, Thanks for validating my suspicions re Latex and Context. One area I used a lot was with regards to Tikz. I will have to make many detours before I get the chance to adapt bespoke Tikz projects to to something more generic and action from org-mode. Hopefully by then the choice of an outputting document management system will be less of a consideration. I half suspect that the Context author (Hans Hagen) focusing on Metapost allowed the Context community to not value Tikz so much (transposing the Tikz manual to Context would be a great win IMHO). Checking in on Context I see that they have a new generation: https://wiki.contextgarden.net/LMTX Im sure there will be some scripts which will need updating given updated conventions. Im pleased that that the project still has momentum and look forward to investigating what this means. A Guix user, it saddens me that it is not packaged properly (time, time, time) - especially given the LMTX shift. Broadening the topic, I wonder whether the wider stemming of Tex derived products should be approached with as much of the equivalent encapsulation = as possible. New to the Emacs and Lisp world, I do not know whether suggesting Org-Mode outputting Racket's Scribble or Guile's Skribilo is productive or relevant (or trolling!). More practically speaking, it is worth noting that Skribilo outputs Context (in addition to Latex): https://www.nongnu.org/skribilo/doc/user-38.html#context-engine It is entirely possible that that community has resolved a lot of the challenges the Org-Mode contingent is currently deliberating over. Best wishes, Jonathan Juan Manuel Mac=C3=ADas writes: > Hello, Jonathan, > > Jonathan McHugh writes: > >> I have wondered about the interoperability between Context and Latex. >> >> As somebody who (previously) invested a lot of time into Latex, my migra= tion to >> Context (due to its emphasis on Lua) grew problematic once other commitm= ents >> grew. > > What I like about ConTeXt is its (let's say) avant-garde vocation. But > for my everyday work I prefer LaTeX: more extensible, more versatile, > even more documented. But we must accept that ConTeXt is also an > advanced typographic laboratory where many functionalities also end up > in LaTeX over time. In fact, as far as I know, the future LaTeX3 adopts > some ideas from ConTeXt. > > On Lua, LuaLaTeX also has good support. And many new LaTeX packages are > already getting very good use of LuaTeX features. > >> The lack of Context support in Org-Mode has made me consider reverting >> back to Latex. > > I know some advanced ConTeXt users (I am not) who are very interested in > migrating to Org Mode. In that aspect, I think a native exporter to > ConTeXt would be of great help. > > Generally speaking, I think Org is the perfect interface to use TeX and > friends. One of the things I like the most about Org Mode is that it > allows working in (La)TeX at a very high level. Of course, for advanced > use, the more you know about LaTeX and TeX, the better. For example, if > I work on a large book, I usually write the entire configuration (the > preamble, my macros, my LaTeX code, etc.) to an Org file, and then I gene= rate > a Preamble.tex file using tangle. I have a master file and several > subdocuments for the parts and sections of the book. And I make heavy > use of Org Publish. But in all that workflow, LaTeX is always in the > background. It is mainly a matter of comfort: I love TeX and its > derivatives, its power and its typographic refinement, but its language > is very verbose and the sources are difficult to debug. Org mode is much > more human readable. And even much more readable and comfortable than > Markdown. > >> If I had a lot of time it would be wonderful to develop parsing >> expression grammars to capture it all, irrespective of direction ... mmm= time.... > > Yes, time is the problem: I think TODO lists were invented to have a > foot of mud in the future :-) > > Regards, > > Juan Manuel=20=20=20=20=20 --=20 Jonathan McHugh indieterminacy@libre.brussels