From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id aDXzBccDsWLKPAAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 01:33:27 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id 6H/3BMcDsWIptAAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 01:33:27 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C09A6B1E3 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 01:33:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:33376 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o3QtZ-0005PW-VY for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2022 19:33:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45276) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o3QpN-00021o-Rk for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2022 19:29:05 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:41545) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o3QpG-0007wn-R1 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2022 19:29:04 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C3E05240107 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 01:28:55 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1655767735; bh=hANWJSEHt5Umf1Ppcnolz06kINGkaa94R2Os1wFs8xE=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From; b=WpvOzQrvPIAwCGszTq/nawEJqhV/KBigER48Y8aDjfq1idyVIrCR5H/QLGVL+BzZy 0wPNDYCMWG/iGDVKh04tCh/QRQwsNGq0zMbpVpAu6RGE1av2eKLyzI7wGuhhOjr+Li 0fx9ryY4kwOAhJVX/K8vUKDHu22R9FD2fdB4MX8/oJRVU1iqL2ZnfQzUL1RqOLqlHb aifdm0KbPKa8vcEwfI0n1Gr38c7YBno8UHBnW9DWteoBZN0F5M8dAzRoLZ6fnOI+TG Jxa0rcRriXfhgW/1YcuDW6jq0oPKbeTm2a3v2cTaeXD7TLyhh3+1MLmGedOuX6uMxP y3syJq3SzgMDQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4LRm7C0GJFz6tlh for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 01:28:54 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Juan_Manuel_Mac=C3=ADas?= To: orgmode Subject: Re: Org and Hyperbole References: <875ykvbffg.fsf@posteo.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2022 23:28:52 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Eduardo Ochs's message of "Mon, 20 Jun 2022 13:57:50 -0300") Message-ID: <87pmj2ykwb.fsf@posteo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=maciaschain@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, T_SPF_HELO_TEMPERROR=0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1655768006; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=JDtv7jWqjf2/AZHQ8BUFC0VLuNZFUJXMD+lcWTpwEDM=; b=QU33dJ+wYzpR3zZ6SAorAwqmibHrwhb4NkbQ6Gm5N01mSK2gRqopbgGb3mpGcjTJ5RBUkz 2bpWMWVa+/6ks4CpXuiehsj0zU7NJGmEzOY5uDDnpMabTlVLZjIdjwy/HZC4YpUjjLF/qg rEPohA+BpIoTkYnzA7yuLgm0Wl//gHadkuMC0SlixoBv0+8Ef8Hq38ANxszUQV5qNWV3eR xeqfOxA1cCvVing9Eyr6ZZihndOFW+NVxsyGe6Ey/+8ct67UMCWT7bv5Qz/atL/QC+4mA/ k6zuMM26bHNDFbOP/SE5VEXEZvGP8XV8jwY5UIu1Rb+x8SV0XaWmihtZpHxNZg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1655768006; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=O2Nvzv22Nowuq4zbtLCi31yEk5K8AxfjYbmaXeGi5xkiEDuBPnRZWwZjVhPdr3pLd7Y58v G8S5LWC6RK2JcpAgZe+6IDXcFTRb2Q4HUW9no8kdWCcwtXzHrzBvYodTI9K3nyhGOq6SB4 UyQVJF9gdUkiJmhNNk0PvH8KQ6i8GNMIeMwEr6QJBdjJNhbjxUX5LftuZwVFgC7n3tG2sX ymE96crQeIiIUic+q1gSJ/R1NpjEhmU9MPgVnc8XV27JO1UpTQ7bP+ehc1RKKo2doMkFaR BQs50oFb9qMFwEUhE1Oc7PYTQ76cC+9jZLzReOpSEAErFXuEtPUKrsxAKdP4FQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=WpvOzQrv; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.57 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=WpvOzQrv; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: C09A6B1E3 X-Spam-Score: -9.57 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: nNAVb6HJ9xY0 Hi all, Thank you very much for your comments and contributions in this thread about Org & hyperbole, which have helped me a lot to position myself. Certainly, for the short time I've been using hyperbole, it has me baffled. It's like someone grabbed all the tools that could be useful ten minutes before the zombie apocalypse starts. There's all the buttons stuff, but also a feature to expand regions in a style similar to the expand-region package, which I use a lot, by the way. And also features to write emails, store contacts, execute searches, a buffer and frame control system (this in particular is what most caught my attention about hiperbole and what I am using the most, since it has some very useful functionalities). The implicit and explicit buttons system is certainly powerful, but I don't think it will surprise the average Org user much in this regard. I think that Eduardo Ochs's description ("Hyperbole is meant to be used, not to be hacked") is quite accurate. On the other hand, I find the hyperbole menu (C-h h) very confusing and ugly. I think it would have gained in cleanliness if they had used transient. It seems that the hyperbole developers put a commendable and honest effort into introducing hyperbole to users. But I perceive that something is failing in the communication. I suspect that hyperbole is an attempt to establish synaptic relationships between Emacs documents and buffers. But that is also what is sought with Org. Without wishing to make comparisons (because, as I say, my knowledge of hyperbole is extremely limited) I would say that there is an important difference between org and hyperbole. Both are huge, and both are complex, and both are packed with features. But in Org there is a coherent and consistent language that ties everything together: once you learn how to ask for a glass of water in the org dialect (something you can do from day one), it doesn't take long to start more complex conversations. In hiperbole I don't just see that language that gives consistency to everything, that "org-style". Or at least it's not so obvious to me. But I'll keep giving it a chance. The whole window configuration control part is extremely interesting to me. Best regards, Juan Manuel