From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id SCnhG7+pxV5GAwAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 20 May 2020 22:05:51 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id YEC2F7+pxV5rBQAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 20 May 2020 22:05:51 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E317694030A for ; Wed, 20 May 2020 22:05:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:40930 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jbWqT-0004fy-Sf for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 18:05:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53704) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jbWq2-0004eG-A0 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 18:05:22 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-x102f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::102f]:39589) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jbWq0-0006Sm-8e for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 18:05:22 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-x102f.google.com with SMTP id n15so2007596pjt.4 for ; Wed, 20 May 2020 15:05:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bobnewell-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:subject:organization:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=f9qH07Yl3acVMlc4yIo0ZeOjii+OZAF/cIkVMFSX7BI=; b=qpksrCphpqcs1JJpUsIFiWj3XOZsBHBpIx3e9jQwPWH1AciUF3EE8OC5oYp8YegXQw waYb/qN4Cljj3da6PONtSQIYELdJbu3Vpxtm+2TuuA0weYW91eJZlZH5rfTdFMdrdOxD nNjLFN6nMEBMVlwSAWrpufKn/cUnYKVt8xnnv5tqggBKTIOm4zGjSnmdGMX2Vajc1Ovj MUvL0GODClmr1XXV98VSKHRbzgVZjdTDA8DkVyDkzOzgm0eNWV387dSnMXIq7ZjWIlxo D5rihSqRCNnDn30k4oCKkiCA6sPFS87qYb5iBfux0w4VRFk0mtmte7Vzj6HH21TUd8DK oNuw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:organization:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=f9qH07Yl3acVMlc4yIo0ZeOjii+OZAF/cIkVMFSX7BI=; b=mSpYZO94q0So416+WicrChtQxYhYVXrOi7M6FGg7mR6SCCJBktLtr/HEo6sLkhvhcS sC4Dg5YRROC48TOMK16w+kCURRBJ4PTqcSwPDxCyPU2J/NjQ2HtRo25Pzp6f453RpMC5 mMQ2E1dZtOuZUjD/SGWLR3B3HawgzzoTie0C2O7QVqdESUGjkJpKitmIRUCL7vtVouVd 3D/5WdiHOsGrqBjJSUlmS9ALCW9oKZHVdR244TBvwi5fGlgSyezVdjGtwQvoTGc67vzX oOQYiirFOTqsv1dt07HRgj/Md5pU4WS5WVxatNO3g34OkMWbF2ElX+LukEXqZfxXCKPb nlJg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533x8oFs2ySPvpSL0ZfsGshU1usBEKVS5G6VCygV0QWrctECBUU1 dTHozqEZmcTibXgVaV6sKvLM4SR8pyo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw6/RWBB1BD4IeV5kfUsW7Rqm6Ro3XTdXdJ8e8W0HYyAg3G9cb8FBz/kM+j5rPZ/BYxsJMrOg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:fc8b:: with SMTP id ci11mr7512363pjb.40.1590012317893; Wed, 20 May 2020 15:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (udp072992uds.hawaiiantel.net. [141.239.244.209]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id kx6sm2758794pjb.49.2020.05.20.15.05.16 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 20 May 2020 15:05:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Newell To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: issue tracker? Organization: Avi Gobbler Publishing References: <87ftbw3mvw.fsf@alphaville.usersys.redhat.com> <6ffc8465-fdeb-4981-8303-43f09e26e0c1@www.fastmail.com> <20200519073352.GC7874@tuxteam.de> <20200519165720.GQ30250@volibear> <87d06z9czz.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <20200520114026.034c24c2@linux-h0yu.plc.hootoo.com> <00a201d62ed8$3455f330$9d01d990$@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 12:05:15 -1000 In-Reply-To: <00a201d62ed8$3455f330$9d01d990$@gmail.com> (gennady uraltsev's message of "Wed, 20 May 2020 14:55:16 -0400") Message-ID: <87o8qip8is.fsf@emailmessageidheader.nil> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: none client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::102f; envelope-from=bobnewell@bobnewell.net; helo=mail-pj1-x102f.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: scn0 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=bobnewell-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=qpksrCph; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.21 X-TUID: Tzn+R4kAgWRa Aloha everyone, Sometimes a "lower tech" solution is best, or at least offers a lot of advantages. What I see as the advantages of resolving issues through a mailing list are: * Minimal barriers to entry. If you have an email client of ANY type, you're in. No need for anything more. I think this is a very big deal, the merits of which can easily be underestimated. * Distributed data. No one has to be responsible for maintaining a central database, keeping it secure and updated, etc. (except, of course, for the list server but that's a different matter). Changes in policy on the bug-tracker host don't matter because there is no host. * A permanent record maintained and replicated widely. Everyone who saves their mail from the list has a copy. I'm certainly not saying that a formal project-management style issue tracking system is a bad thing; in many use cases, it can be quite important. But this is an open-source, distributed effort, non-commercial endeavor, not beholden to a specific client (the clients are all of us) and clearly not for profit. The requirements are not the same. I can't cite statistics, but I wonder if more gets "lost" on the mailing list than in a formal bug tracking system, where things do get buried and may not surface for a long time if ever. Another big enabling factor is that (as others have mentioned) this list is very responsive, very open and welcoming, and almost always courteous and respectful (rather a big thing on today's internet). I've posted various things and gotten various replies and results. When I've reported problems, they've been addressed, generally quickly and effectively. When I talk about nice-to-haves, some get responses and some don't, which is exactly what I'd expect. I'm very pleased with the way things are working and would hate to add another layer of complexity without being sure the upsides were greater than the downsides. -- Bob Newell Honolulu, Hawai`i - Via GNU/Linux/Emacs/Gnus/BBDB