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[2001:44b8:31f2:bb00:5eaf:18f8:7c3d:c1e4]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b21-20020a170902b61500b0016b81679c2asm2230482pls.214.2022.06.27.17.27.56 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 27 Jun 2022 17:27:57 -0700 (PDT) References: <0472f849f3ae42df68b0f031d61594d9@posteo.de> <87ilt3yvqj.fsf@localhost> <877d9j3u91.fsf@localhost> <17c95e5a298c213c63b6f7ac9f05aac4@posteo.de> <87y21z2d2b.fsf@localhost> <871qzqg81c.fsf@gnu.org> <87r17q2n3i.fsf@localhost> <877d9ij990.fsf@gnu.org> <87iloyyd1y.fsf@localhost> <87r13kxh60.fsf@localhost> User-agent: mu4e 1.8.0; emacs 29.0.50 From: Tim Cross To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Links to javascript-based websites from orgmode.org: Paypal and Github Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 09:42:46 +1000 In-reply-to: Message-ID: <87o7ydk4xi.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::429; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-x429.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1656376149; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=pSuypGuGMv5/wzfy9JUxZtZQJGq0YhaDHQsGEv5LO50=; b=qR1Ie7PbmGGrOlr+fChdyGn43U5yDJLIQfF5LhyKMddJ5jcl+u2VQedljZsA+y5qjz0YuV ePkpe5xJqGChxNbJqMrMoOFbWVFGuApcgADqKXFoj2jIWk5gAEKJuT5NUqTYhsHpcc6dU+ /0qTiVCufcDO7OSkHvBBATBK4ZgjRALG/mIVFXXzYWS4ouIBWHEVkI06Jup25P0oH1hEwW uRpdyfbJOoIATWUk65t5S2Sic9bWYDHaVKPrYe8muvwnKnqjeI1mQ72kkg893C3vgQNlz/ x7uPR+s8m0p6uZjibjksEJ5Fbw94kwcCHd2nlIUvWEY07BeJMKQwNpSWZOzBWA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1656376149; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=itMxuawR35k/EXyMc4K0V8SZ15ZW8MRU2+jcuecopHvgD1+ACWm5vAZw1qoSZU1h48BMyZ wH6IcnpE3t46ax9B5tqvBcSiVdqSk+yTJrD+XMJFv6wl1kk/HZUkSTJ+THquQ1+6EFJS5+ Lb7+2LjfxNGgMkeGZCXQtG/IJL6ggd0yZUi8T7VI/F5Nm8yEa321c+G1JRuJBobu04Ggnm DZSjGWBzwq2JxcC5QFqioi/U5RXQ3KxpIMM7uhtETMqNtBIL2OOBez1/HtECJWrNO2Ph1a wK20wD80OLkdBOofWkPxB4dqIu1juQZQUodoNEeB3/WG+4CQZ70B0iHbttjgfA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=CSp1R0Q+; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.45 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=CSp1R0Q+; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 2611B48B3 X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: 7dlr5WDMaR1n Tom Gillespie writes: >> GNU packages should not steer people towards running nonfree software. >> As a consequence, they should not suggest people donate using payment services >> that _require_ the donor to run a nonfree program. > > A slight variant of Ihor's question. > > While GNU packages should not steer people toward nonfree software, > I assume that there is nothing that prohibits GNU contributors from > accepting donations via non-free systems. > > This thread suggests that it is no other option if devs also do not want > to steer people toward cryptocurrencies (which some consider to be as > ethically important as not steering people toward nonfree software). > > My question is whether the website for a GNU package can include links > to the websites of individual developers with a note that you can provide > financial support to the project by supporting individuals. In the end the > user still winds up using nonfree JS, but is GNU living up to its principles > by virtue of the extra layer of indirection? > > Given that https://www.fsf.org/about/ways-to-donate/ does include paypal > as an option, with a disclaimer, is a disclaimer not a sufficient solution for > GNU packages as well? Given that the FSF has a link to PayPal on their donations page , I think we can do the same for the org project. All that is required is that we do like the FSF does and put a bit of text beside it stating "Not recommended - requires nonfree Javascript". We should also include a postal address where people could send in donations to provide an alternative for those who really don't want to use the non-free service (which doens't have to be paypal of course - any of them would likely be as good). I also notice the FSF will also accept donations via credit card. There is no credit card processing service which is based on libre software, so the FSF is using non-free software to process those donations as well (I guess technically, they are not directly encouraging people use the non-free credit card processing service, but apparently it is OK for the FSF to use it to process those donations?). I do notice that RMS says "should not" rather than "must not", which I think provides some 'wriggle room'. Provided we provide some way to donate without using non-free software and state that we do not recommend using service XXXX which uses non-free Javascript (they all seem to at some level) and provided we are prepared to switch to a libre solution if and when one becomes available (which I doubt it ever will), we are probably OK. However, I am surprised that out of all the options, the FSF uses PayPal.