A Header outline and an Argument outline in one?

A Header outline and an Argument outline in one?

[Scot Becker]

Greetings, org-moders,

I use org for academic writing, and it seems to me that org might be a
good way (perhaps even the only existing way) to keep the following
two kinds of outline structures in one place:

1.  The typographic outline.  Headers and Subheaders that should
organize my final document.
2.  The argument outline.  The running structure of my argument, not
finally published but visible to me as I organize and write.  This
should also be printable as an outline, to discuss my ongoing work.

Right now I do use org to do (1), as part of my writing, which then
gets exported to LaTeX.  This is nothing new.  Org makes a fantastic
sandbox for (2).  But it isn't very easy to keep them both together.
I'm thinking of a way that:

(a) I can use org's great outlining UI to do either (1) or (2), in the
same outline structure, even if not at the same time.
(b) keeps them both together, so I can use (2) to prompt my writing.
(c) Lets me just print the argument outline (i.e. with the easylist[1]
latex package), or just the document headings, or both
(c) lets me keep my statements of argument with my text as my written
piece develops, and possibly
(e) lets me have argument statements for small sections that I don't
want typographical headings for.  (Paragraphs yet to be written).

It seems to me that the only way to be able to use org-ui to do and
keep a non published argument outline is to have a mechanism that
would exchange the org heading ("*  Chapter One" ) with the argument
statements when I tell it to.  It could then store the currently
inactive 'header' either in a commented line or an org-property.  This
would allow all the goodness of org to operate freely on either kind
of node title, and the typical export case which keeps the Argument
lines hidden, or exports them as comments.

I could then have another mechanism which would allow both headers AND
argument lines to be exported to LaTeX/HTML, for those cases when I
want a talking points outline to discuss with my supervisor, or to
work on the whole in pen-and-paper mode.  I assume such a mechanism
would either put the two headers together in one heading (* Chapter
One :: The Music of the 50s made a generation crazy), or somehow
export the property containing the Argument AS the body text, or as
the argument of a custom latex command.


(e) above is a bit of another matter, and I'm not sure how to
accomplish it in orgmode, which only has native capacity to supress
whole nodes, not just the headers, but it would be a great addition,
since it would let me do pre-writing outlining at a far finer level.

I am an elisp learner (as an Emacs user must be, I suppose), but still
very early in my elisp childhood.  I would be very grateful for some
ideas about the best way to accomplish this, and/or some guidance
about what code I might take model these things on.  And of course any
expressions of enthusiasm for the idea, or hacks that already
accomplish something like it are mightily welcome.

Thanks,

Scot


Footnotes

[1] http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/easylist/easylist-doc.pdf

Re: A Header outline and an Argument outline in one?

[Bernt Hansen]

Scot Becker <scot.becker@gmail.com> writes:

> Greetings, org-moders,
>
> I use org for academic writing, and it seems to me that org might be a
> good way (perhaps even the only existing way) to keep the following
> two kinds of outline structures in one place:
>
> 1.  The typographic outline.  Headers and Subheaders that should
> organize my final document.
> 2.  The argument outline.  The running structure of my argument, not
> finally published but visible to me as I organize and write.  This
> should also be printable as an outline, to discuss my ongoing work.
>
> Right now I do use org to do (1), as part of my writing, which then
> gets exported to LaTeX.  This is nothing new.  Org makes a fantastic
> sandbox for (2).  But it isn't very easy to keep them both together.
> I'm thinking of a way that:
>
> (a) I can use org's great outlining UI to do either (1) or (2), in the
> same outline structure, even if not at the same time.
> (b) keeps them both together, so I can use (2) to prompt my writing.
> (c) Lets me just print the argument outline (i.e. with the easylist[1]
> latex package), or just the document headings, or both
> (c) lets me keep my statements of argument with my text as my written
> piece develops, and possibly
> (e) lets me have argument statements for small sections that I don't
> want typographical headings for.  (Paragraphs yet to be written).
>
> It seems to me that the only way to be able to use org-ui to do and
> keep a non published argument outline is to have a mechanism that
> would exchange the org heading ("*  Chapter One" ) with the argument
> statements when I tell it to.  It could then store the currently
> inactive 'header' either in a commented line or an org-property.  This
> would allow all the goodness of org to operate freely on either kind
> of node title, and the typical export case which keeps the Argument
> lines hidden, or exports them as comments.
>
> I could then have another mechanism which would allow both headers AND
> argument lines to be exported to LaTeX/HTML, for those cases when I
> want a talking points outline to discuss with my supervisor, or to
> work on the whole in pen-and-paper mode.  I assume such a mechanism
> would either put the two headers together in one heading (* Chapter
> One :: The Music of the 50s made a generation crazy), or somehow
> export the property containing the Argument AS the body text, or as
> the argument of a custom latex command.
>
>
> (e) above is a bit of another matter, and I'm not sure how to
> accomplish it in orgmode, which only has native capacity to supress
> whole nodes, not just the headers, but it would be a great addition,
> since it would let me do pre-writing outlining at a far finer level.
>
> I am an elisp learner (as an Emacs user must be, I suppose), but still
> very early in my elisp childhood.  I would be very grateful for some
> ideas about the best way to accomplish this, and/or some guidance
> about what code I might take model these things on.  And of course any
> expressions of enthusiasm for the idea, or hacks that already
> accomplish something like it are mightily welcome.


Hi Scot

I think you can do most if not all of what you want with tags.  I'm not
sure but I think you want to keep your notes and arguments inline with
your document structure something like this:

Consider the following test org-mode document

,----[ test.org ]
| #+EXPORT_SELECT_TAGS: 
| #+EXPORT_EXCLUDE_TAGS: argument note
| 
| * One
|   Stuff about One
| ** One.Argument							   :argument:
|    Argument for One
| * Two
|   Stuff about Two
| ** Two.One
|    Stuff about Two.One
| ** Some note about two						       :note:
|    This is a note
| ** Two.Two
|    Stuff about Two.Two
| * Three
|   Stuff about Three
| ** Argument for Three						   :argument:
|    [2009-11-18 Wed 09:21]
| *** TODO Don't forget to do this
|     [2009-11-18 Wed 09:22]
| * Four
|   Stuff about Four
| ** Four.One
|    Stuff about Four.One
| ** Four.Two
|    Stuff about Four.Two
| *** Note about Four.Two						       :note:
|     More interesting stuff
| *** Four.Two.One
|     Stuff about Four.Two.One
| **** Argument for Four.Two.One					   :argument:
|      [2009-11-18 Wed 09:24]
| *** Four.Two.Two
|     Stuff about Four.Two.Two
| *** Four.Two.Three
|     Stuff about Four.Two.Three
| * Five
|   Stuff about Five
| * Six
|   Stuff about Six
| * Seven
|   Stuff about Seven
`----

By simply changing the EXPORT_SELECT_TAGS and EXPORT_EXCLUDE_TAGS you
can control what ends up in your exported document.

Export the document without arguments or notes
,----
| #+EXPORT_SELECT_TAGS:
| #+EXPORT_EXCLUDE_TAGS: argument note
`----

Export the argument and notes only
,----
| #+EXPORT_SELECT_TAGS: argument note
| #+EXPORT_EXCLUDE_TAGS:
`----

Export only the arguments
,----
| #+EXPORT_SELECT_TAGS: argument
| #+EXPORT_EXCLUDE_TAGS:
`----

Export everything
,----
| #+EXPORT_SELECT_TAGS:
| #+EXPORT_EXCLUDE_TAGS:
`----

HTH,
Bernt

Re: A Header outline and an Argument outline in one?

[Scot Becker]

Thanks, Bernt for the suggestion and for working up that test file.

I think you're right, that something like that will work.  The minor
disadvantage is that it puts the 'argument' after the body text that
expresses it, but the huge advantage is that everything is already in
place.  I've extended your sample document to try it, and I think it
could work for me.  Now I'll try to do some work that way.

Thanks,
Scot


On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca> wrote:
> Scot Becker <scot.becker@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Greetings, org-moders,
>>
>> I use org for academic writing, and it seems to me that org might be a
>> good way (perhaps even the only existing way) to keep the following
>> two kinds of outline structures in one place:
>>
>> 1.  The typographic outline.  Headers and Subheaders that should
>> organize my final document.
>> 2.  The argument outline.  The running structure of my argument, not
>> finally published but visible to me as I organize and write.  This
>> should also be printable as an outline, to discuss my ongoing work.
>>
>> Right now I do use org to do (1), as part of my writing, which then
>> gets exported to LaTeX.  This is nothing new.  Org makes a fantastic
>> sandbox for (2).  But it isn't very easy to keep them both together.
>> I'm thinking of a way that:
>>
>> (a) I can use org's great outlining UI to do either (1) or (2), in the
>> same outline structure, even if not at the same time.
>> (b) keeps them both together, so I can use (2) to prompt my writing.
>> (c) Lets me just print the argument outline (i.e. with the easylist[1]
>> latex package), or just the document headings, or both
>> (c) lets me keep my statements of argument with my text as my written
>> piece develops, and possibly
>> (e) lets me have argument statements for small sections that I don't
>> want typographical headings for.  (Paragraphs yet to be written).
>>
>> It seems to me that the only way to be able to use org-ui to do and
>> keep a non published argument outline is to have a mechanism that
>> would exchange the org heading ("*  Chapter One" ) with the argument
>> statements when I tell it to.  It could then store the currently
>> inactive 'header' either in a commented line or an org-property.  This
>> would allow all the goodness of org to operate freely on either kind
>> of node title, and the typical export case which keeps the Argument
>> lines hidden, or exports them as comments.
>>
>> I could then have another mechanism which would allow both headers AND
>> argument lines to be exported to LaTeX/HTML, for those cases when I
>> want a talking points outline to discuss with my supervisor, or to
>> work on the whole in pen-and-paper mode.  I assume such a mechanism
>> would either put the two headers together in one heading (* Chapter
>> One :: The Music of the 50s made a generation crazy), or somehow
>> export the property containing the Argument AS the body text, or as
>> the argument of a custom latex command.
>>
>>
>> (e) above is a bit of another matter, and I'm not sure how to
>> accomplish it in orgmode, which only has native capacity to supress
>> whole nodes, not just the headers, but it would be a great addition,
>> since it would let me do pre-writing outlining at a far finer level.
>>
>> I am an elisp learner (as an Emacs user must be, I suppose), but still
>> very early in my elisp childhood.  I would be very grateful for some
>> ideas about the best way to accomplish this, and/or some guidance
>> about what code I might take model these things on.  And of course any
>> expressions of enthusiasm for the idea, or hacks that already
>> accomplish something like it are mightily welcome.
>
>
> Hi Scot
>
> I think you can do most if not all of what you want with tags.  I'm not
> sure but I think you want to keep your notes and arguments inline with
> your document structure something like this:
>
> Consider the following test org-mode document
>
> ,----[ test.org ]
> | #+EXPORT_SELECT_TAGS:
> | #+EXPORT_EXCLUDE_TAGS: argument note
> |
> | * One
> |   Stuff about One
> | ** One.Argument                                                          :argument:
> |    Argument for One
> | * Two
> |   Stuff about Two
> | ** Two.One
> |    Stuff about Two.One
> | ** Some note about two                                                       :note:
> |    This is a note
> | ** Two.Two
> |    Stuff about Two.Two
> | * Three
> |   Stuff about Three
> | ** Argument for Three                                            :argument:
> |    [2009-11-18 Wed 09:21]
> | *** TODO Don't forget to do this
> |     [2009-11-18 Wed 09:22]
> | * Four
> |   Stuff about Four
> | ** Four.One
> |    Stuff about Four.One
> | ** Four.Two
> |    Stuff about Four.Two
> | *** Note about Four.Two                                                      :note:
> |     More interesting stuff
> | *** Four.Two.One
> |     Stuff about Four.Two.One
> | **** Argument for Four.Two.One                                           :argument:
> |      [2009-11-18 Wed 09:24]
> | *** Four.Two.Two
> |     Stuff about Four.Two.Two
> | *** Four.Two.Three
> |     Stuff about Four.Two.Three
> | * Five
> |   Stuff about Five
> | * Six
> |   Stuff about Six
> | * Seven
> |   Stuff about Seven
> `----
>
> By simply changing the EXPORT_SELECT_TAGS and EXPORT_EXCLUDE_TAGS you
> can control what ends up in your exported document.
>
> Export the document without arguments or notes
> ,----
> | #+EXPORT_SELECT_TAGS:
> | #+EXPORT_EXCLUDE_TAGS: argument note
> `----
>
> Export the argument and notes only
> ,----
> | #+EXPORT_SELECT_TAGS: argument note
> | #+EXPORT_EXCLUDE_TAGS:
> `----
>
> Export only the arguments
> ,----
> | #+EXPORT_SELECT_TAGS: argument
> | #+EXPORT_EXCLUDE_TAGS:
> `----
>
> Export everything
> ,----
> | #+EXPORT_SELECT_TAGS:
> | #+EXPORT_EXCLUDE_TAGS:
> `----
>
> HTH,
> Bernt
>

Re: A Header outline and an Argument outline in one?

[Daniel Clemente]

El mié, nov 18 2009 a les 13:12, Scot Becker va escriure:
> (e) above is a bit of another matter, and I'm not sure how to
> accomplish it in orgmode, which only has native capacity to supress
> whole nodes, not just the headers, 

  This is very interesting. I assume you want to wrap some paragraphs inside a header but without exporting the header; just for the outline benefits.
  Normally you would do:

----------------------------
My thesis.

* (just a little introduction)
I will explain the achievements of this work.

** (first discovery: roses are red)
It was discovered that roses are red.
----------------------------


  But then the headers are exported.
  You should use inline tasks instead. Use (require 'org-inlinetask) and write:


----------------------------
My thesis.

**************** (just a little introduction)
I will explain the achievements of this work.

***************** (first discovery: roses are red)
It was discovered that roses are red.
----------------------------


  Ask org-mode not to export the tasks -- it exports the content instead:
  (setq org-inlinetask-export nil)

  And this exports to:


---------------------------

My thesis.

I will explain the achievements of this work.

It was discovered that roses are red.

---------------------------



  I hope it helps.


-- Daniel