From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id BB3CClZfhmGTGQEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 06 Nov 2021 11:56:22 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id sFnrBVZfhmHdDwAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 06 Nov 2021 10:56:22 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B00F2D804 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2021 11:56:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:33302 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mjJMy-0007H2-Mn for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 06 Nov 2021 06:56:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57362) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mjJMN-0007Gi-0n for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Nov 2021 06:55:43 -0400 Received: from outbound.soverin.net ([116.202.65.215]:35935) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mjJMK-0002Qj-7x for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Nov 2021 06:55:42 -0400 Received: from smtp.soverin.net (unknown [10.10.3.24]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by outbound.soverin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5317260960; Sat, 6 Nov 2021 10:55:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.soverin.net (smtp.soverin.net [159.69.232.138]) by soverin.net From: Noboru Ota To: Ihor Radchenko , Greg Minshall Subject: Re: transclusion, tangling, flycheck/flymake, etc. In-Reply-To: <875yt9e9ce.fsf@localhost> References: <1673748.1635927354@apollo2.minshall.org> <875yt9e9ce.fsf@localhost> Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2021 11:55:33 +0100 Message-ID: <87mtmhk0yi.fsf@nobiot.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.65.215; envelope-from=me@nobiot.com; helo=outbound.soverin.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1636196181; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=hAustQPjhHaGfrXpE0QDdiegiIs2l9d46LrfbSScPE8=; b=pfD3cisTteN6WNaZWtje6zgaY6SA9VTvYshArgaxeR8jSoVmPLNVa8zzh9AeUxAJcMaczf oNSrV+Vl16m+teVqQJJ1EHoVwPkh/aPdo3FFeh+uADYfXAmRiu7IBNkPqE5SyaGulqeFkA h5JfQTnl1Eh12c4TVAxay7DGqbQFb/R7o+5dyVQdDV4YNzfmzF1r2Wuyj+lG7bimq4E4Qa fTaBPgiadzWGEa7eZ2eQSLUokpnu/tImYqTcG6OjjOulJaCS1+5LjchQScMEqWwI177PEh aMvUtD/ZRyf6tM+VZ3XdgtKC8uyK3ayvqii/0PPCIGDtu/Csu3qRedZgsMxMtA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1636196181; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=IdCePfE0OLBT+2HzAAqfnTHJiXii22CnosQFzeKzWqCjr6HVnuggOZkJbqlGxOo7EbtbhL tsGisS9sEc4Y1J60P56ScSra4OxPBvfSrk5qJ8lB8MKiz9gC4aZY1NeLssu9CGrrfShJzY fWQCLzizq+u19Xc6dGNqJJHvvxZfFDmZWlLY2goF1IT6uHv/4WgNF5ACDZx7pbG8gdqI9r BJdP92ybSlAz1r/hsjBJnyxIYdu2D2sOkeNlsZoWZwi8ADoUNZ5OR23opJAuHqwKWQd/Kx 5hPKw2cfEen6F8UeUE+5Ja4qXctqSin6v2h5aj1jsYvIBEqkzVfG8mZTmyBEeA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.42 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 8B00F2D804 X-Spam-Score: -2.42 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: n74wV5uGurIT Ihor Radchenko writes: > Greg Minshall writes: > >> my thought about flycheck, flymake, whatever, is that (optionally) a >> silent, background, =3Dtangle=3D and/or =3D<> expansion=3D would = take >> place to produce a "full source file buffer"[*], then the narrowed >> version of that (corresponding to the part where =3DC-c=C2=A0'=3D was is= sued) >> buffer is presented for the user's editing convenience. > > You are right. That's what I had in mind. Though noweb <>-style > references may need to be transcluded without expanding - they may be > computationally expensive. > >> your thought here, iiuc, is that source files would live in the file >> system, and be transcluded into the .org file. i can see the utility of >> that. but, i would miss =3D<>=3D and also the ability to break t= he >> source code into small chunks for purposes of documentation. > > No. I did not imply that source files will be transcluded into the .org > file. Currently, .org file is the source of the code (unless you use > org-babel-detangle). I was thinking that C-c ' will trigger generating a > temporary prog-mode buffer (according to .org file!). It is not a good > idea to associate the temporary buffer with actual file because tangling > may involve expanding noweb references. Noweb sometimes require long > computations or even access to remote servers. I think that it's better > to trigger tangle process manually by default. This part of the discussion is beyond me; apologies for not being able to engage in a useful way. I don't consider myself a programmer so the use of Org-transclusion to achieve some elements of IDE (integrated development environment, I assume) experience is something I cannot fully address. As an attempt to clarify my original intent, this use from Greg is what I had in mind: "source files would live in the file system, and be transcluded into the .org file". This lets the technical writer (for example) "break the source code into small chunks for purposes of documentation." I have had a comment from a user that that's exactly this person is doing. So the direction is *from* the source file *to* an org file. What Ihor seems to be suggesting is the other direction: *from* an org file *to* a (temporary) source file. I do not think the latter is possible with the current state of Org-transclusion. Noboru