From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id 2OlBBj7hwmMXbQAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 18:07:10 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id uJRdBT7hwmO5UwEAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 18:07:10 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD8D938A3A for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 18:07:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pGjz0-0002xz-SM; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 12:06:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pGjyt-0002xC-Fo for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 12:06:12 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pGjyp-00060O-16 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 12:06:11 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4BB4240048 for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 18:06:04 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1673715964; bh=E//q/wkOHEHuYTj/v1TZDiA/Bk9DDy+HQQ2Z8bt2HXc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=agxHNf4uYbbfHFdhD6VXQQIKh0IY8FdtD+SOIKk0e8gGygJMtMyKqo+ZRu0CRmeeR 5HqJKPFhujCkjuY6GZIwoHrdBTpasoyw1M54zPgARpijRozPT/CguHdCu30fCJtVIA eXMgGZ+1GkemRttcXTd9ZRFYS/5ACfEwlqJhDyC122yyy4xx/Q+UteDDFTYXla0xXl Nem5d/FRluQC+lfbbFgf7W3Y5wcR4Jv5FUD4wEnYgXmxmj47bDGKcvHpl2240IF3yd B5QEHpPwPNkOSB1WdLvx+/qVX1K3m2IPu9dYUuELLD5f4Jm8jczXBGNLwWvjcwd7re iHNVHZx1qderg== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NvPnR6R3Fz6tmS; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 18:06:03 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: tomas@tuxteam.de Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda In-Reply-To: References: <63c287ca.a70a0220.4bd14.873b@mx.google.com> <87pmbh1hgx.fsf@localhost> <63c2b8e4.a70a0220.e3b6d.0051@mx.google.com> <87edrxyyeq.fsf@localhost> <87bkn1yx59.fsf@localhost> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2023 17:06:31 +0000 Message-ID: <87lem582qw.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=agxHNf4u; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1673716029; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=XB56lH+MCVI9xhlX4D4ETYAvLe7dKkGv2LvyrYOduBHlFlLFNkzdyNlhLA5yAMtPGnWIG8 svCsIBz57tvN/qpqixBTTdeNoZ6Ul7T53g9w+fnBeavHkWExrfTTau2l/PQ3MGwQAi4OXJ DOQ/m65DP97zWPQvZDKktec811jcMyBIoVfoY30x6dnFymdxoRweSv5gtWxITXleFnfBcD Ki4oig5lihEdlLVLf8Qm/ckx9za8bdrUGnIBNRIPhoDh14S/SwX/lr3N/f8dGYtrjXipBf Kwrhfv5cyy9YdapxbmxALqU+K8mpOrdS4/gYUTGp2MvRfZ3u57kfVzjpqrEU8A== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1673716029; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=6/8DSoroDoZt9QFkQjss7MosHh1Ndb/FOHlOR4RMd7M=; b=je1YjFHfoRF+fKeQ6s3CX+/HKR4PZ+ie+dFphTETy/xFTxqWBNgytUa5e8S3TwbR6abB+Y rET2R4rIVqySFgFECW0aupvtKxEJ0yHyhoC4KKzFbXgejCBoBopWMPf4v/BExJLl/rrLF4 EY6II+1gftkIPThAYIbRahgN1iAN8DlbKfwubU2/EJb7qcuKtIlQrO/MbDMh41wjOZvxs+ A2WFk4CYTVZURGHvhzWGovLQ5GW150J/k0M5Ao2m+AxlyxIL0UGgNdpqkxm+4CqtpsrM2P xnXvS3JWHdLwxb7Sovz/Uni2uNkDqcPuV2SWTIpBLKzj6pdPag9VkWvGpsy53g== X-Migadu-Queue-Id: AD8D938A3A X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=agxHNf4u; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -11.06 X-Spam-Score: -11.06 X-TUID: my98a34SB0Ev tomas@tuxteam.de writes: >> ... Having an >> ability to specify time zones manually will already cater needs for a >> number of users. > > Definitely. But the time stamp (with time zone) in itself doesn't > carry enough context to actually decide that. It's even not that > easy to wrap one's head around dates that "travel" (the easiest > example would be perhaps: "9:00 show up at work" -- when DST takes > effect, it's still 9:00 whatever the local time is). This is basically what we have now - conform to "current" system time zone. We are not going to remove this timestamp style. Just add an ability to explicitly specify the timestamps if needed. > When you have appointments with people in totally diverse time zones, > perhaps dates tend to be more fixed wrt UTC. AFAIK, people don't usually bother. As long as you can map from specific time zone (applying the currently active summer clock time changes) to something like seconds from epoch, you can always calculate back to you preferred time zone. Look at https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Usergroups. They say, for example, "Europe/Berlin", which may be either CET or CEST. In any case, selection of time zone for user timestamps is not something we need to worry about in Org code. Users are to decide. Org might assist, but I do not see anything meaningful we can do to help with DST. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at