From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e16b::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms8.migadu.com with LMTPS id MPnWLGwk32W4dAAAqHPOHw:P1 (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2024 13:17:48 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e16b::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0.migadu.com with LMTPS id MPnWLGwk32W4dAAAqHPOHw (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2024 13:17:48 +0100 X-Envelope-To: larch@yhetil.org Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=HI4Vbaae; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1709122668; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Hi+8MPCULhXd02fbOGsiWJujy2h5yFdA1VSJhuF47+U=; b=teg6ID63xjgqvDXaWY5QXbK1D1jZQzOhxo2HKGs+D+P3tbUHzu0H5mWzdSFXEsnQ9ybiL9 MLP2dn2pc7FBlWJ6aPtz6OnSVeACSKNpusmVELsUzNk6JIrEMfjSj6ZpATelO97aSMl72l x9wOAs2uBWq80sgS46FCq4ELpZx2DdEb6J2Q2AWAIfzY0YhZLzNRgK3xzT5xxDfmrrmQ5a SK0Zy0MmIWM82C4/mCniC0/CuK9dF6fliJ9OrO/a4cAGwJc0SA5upQH77KSoIGvyiQQOPM SwF6uAfUOiSJZUjjO62VvIfI+s8d1120TrZkx6qd2DT3BkWt2pGTXGeQnJslWg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=HI4Vbaae; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1709122668; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Lxioy5BUcTY2aoDsjME7ZbuRBBS4gHgBeJUi6SX+Fz1GCc+xsTNOS5KcEHPJjin5QhAz6f f8G1lHh2M0SRQaJAJmo4OOzNq5zsbTJw3LEghdUO7rzmPSi5siNq4GOZCezFZFYQKsQhzA hYBmin5JM7RjtOicKajiKond2mnfojoJ3g1JPQqBvFoncHBqUaRzCo5R8/n/MtcN0QLZfo dMGSlfuvsypYtg/2gwboesMK2yVQNqek79tHbLFBgr8WeesvaF8JIDsExcsdxBLqAY65cl f2EGXcW1Y8Uul5fVWEUkyg/yhFAsIJPSJl0SaK6u/2AKFXRPqHr8CqojbUldcg== Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D160106B8 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2024 13:17:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rfIs6-0008OR-PW; Wed, 28 Feb 2024 07:17:14 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rfIs4-0008KU-7f for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2024 07:17:12 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rfIs0-0007wk-8x for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2024 07:17:11 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC83824002B for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2024 13:17:04 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1709122625; bh=B4lm8u9hie1HkbLagCwQrgO859sV/SGtT1R3M7hKLTc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type: From; b=HI4Vbaae8/3D9VoNsyzsQ6N1xUhWTSmko5ewK7cNP3IHAcUVTGZS8k0lCMKE/KPk5 W4hMxiwgarTiwxAHn3vW31mWw3oRv4vVo2KdihFdOlwttDf2g9EL+6FxzTCpnRdzGh qMl9XgPj3YPsjo0xd4VVgPnjr6VLsx5ZCzEqJpRStyagBrjnEzpK1LNYrKsc1bsnKa akUSdOByhdQjCkrhN96FoGQaZg+Jd0AwW2bFgxfqHdONaAL0ugWNjCH7ou2ra/J54H 3rS2tPmfly/Mnz/YjqyeQbVqyaaKHsMFfzy0uAqWYA96+RsHbLg8McpWPI9jnAWRW2 nePyXJMl6SaIQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4TlCym1Dg8z9rxP; Wed, 28 Feb 2024 13:17:03 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Matt Cc: =?utf-8?Q?S=C5=82awomir_Grochowski?= , emacs-orgmode Subject: Re: [PATCH] doc/org-manual.org (Checkboxes): move section 'Checkboxes' from 'TODO Items' to 'Plain Lists' In-Reply-To: <18deb76f2d9.cad957fe1073948.9203602429479305690@excalamus.com> References: <87ttn1f3b5.fsf@localhost> <87plwjmwhj.fsf@localhost> <18deb76f2d9.cad957fe1073948.9203602429479305690@excalamus.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2024 12:20:57 +0000 Message-ID: <87le743hli.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -6.48 X-Spam-Score: -6.48 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 7D160106B8 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx13.migadu.com X-TUID: cZ8BCaodsJF3 Matt writes: > I had responded in favor here: https://list.orgmode.org/18d4cf138a6.10fb9c6702382826.5023996590743168415@excalamus.com/ Did I miss something, or did you not provided arguments /why/ the section should be moved? I need to understand what kind of improvement it would provide to the manual. > The Checkboxes section is written assuming the reader knows what Properties are. The GNU documentation guidelines suggest writing as though readers have read from the beginning [fn:1] [fn:2]. That is, unless introducing a concept, only use concepts that have already been explained. Properties are introduced in Section 2.7 and Checkboxes is currently 5.6. The proposal is to move Checkboxes to 2.6.1 *before* properties are introduced. This is a problem. We start talking about properties as early as in 2.2.2 Initial visibility and in many other places. Re-ordering the manual to avoid referring to future concepts would entail a major rewrite. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at