From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
Subject: Re: Localized org-mode
Date: Wed, 09 May 2018 15:25:05 +0200
Message-ID: <87k1sdt0zy.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
References: <1525784567.2021.47.camel@gmail.com>
	<87bmdqtf01.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
	<1525801068.2021.56.camel@gmail.com>
	<87bmdqrosp.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
	<1525851919.2021.66.camel@gmail.com>
	<877eodutq2.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
	<CAGY83EdBWp7zKcDeSFrO-gm6b+4xWg3Y+rD5YaSkiBKW5bA7TQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFyQvY3aXryaxrKLYz2CXxo2Ry1UN33SawfpmAg=3jL0ke2_AA@mail.gmail.com>
	<0702E659-EAA4-4767-B209-308E535C670A@gmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Return-path: <emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org>
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36312)
	by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71)
	(envelope-from <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>) id 1fGP5m-0004UA-RZ
	for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 09 May 2018 09:25:20 -0400
Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71)
	(envelope-from <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>) id 1fGP5h-0000AN-Jj
	for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 09 May 2018 09:25:14 -0400
Received: from relay10.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.230]:34035)
	by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32)
	(Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>)
	id 1fGP5h-00007P-D3
	for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 09 May 2018 09:25:09 -0400
In-Reply-To: <0702E659-EAA4-4767-B209-308E535C670A@gmail.com> (Jean-Christophe
	Helary's message of "Wed, 9 May 2018 21:43:02 +0900")
List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." <emacs-orgmode.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/options/emacs-orgmode>,
	<mailto:emacs-orgmode-request@gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/>
List-Post: <mailto:emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:emacs-orgmode-request@gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode>,
	<mailto:emacs-orgmode-request@gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org
Sender: "Emacs-orgmode"
	<emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org>
To: Jean-Christophe Helary <brandelune@gmail.com>
Cc: Org-mode <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>

Hello,

Jean-Christophe Helary <brandelune@gmail.com> writes:

> There are no practical reasons why that should not be possible.

Yet, I gave some already. Consider the following three documents:

    * Headline
    :PROPERTIES:
    foo
    :END:

and

    * Headline
    :PROPERTIES:
    :foo:
    :END:

    Paragraph.

    :PROPERTIES:
    bar
    :END:

and

    * Headline
    :PROPRI=C3=89T=C3=89S:
    :foo:
    :FIN:

How would you translate them into, say, French? Can you do this without
knowing what is a properties drawer, including the "PROPERTIES" name?

> The current state of affairs is only due to design constraints when
> the languages were conceived.

So, this is a practical reason: design constraints.

> In Scheme, for ex. you can actually redefine all the language keywords
> very easily without any impact on the interpreter.

Note that Org syntax is more complicated than Scheme's. In both cases,
you need to recognize syntax data before translating them. You do not
really change syntax, you add a layer on top of it.

> What matters is that users find org easy to use in their language. But
> emacs (the main org user) is so far behind in that respect compared to
> the rest of the FLOSS ecosystem that even having one mode that
> implements some sort of l10n would be huge. Although, it would be nice
> to have that work nicely with already existing l10n processes.

These are orthogonal issues. You can do l10n without modifying syntax.
The export framework already does that, and I gave a POC to handle this
in Emacs.

I have no solution outside of Emacs.

Regards,

--=20
Nicolas Goaziou