From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id 0CWPEV5j12FScAEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 22:47:10 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id 4AUzCl5j12FK4AAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 22:47:10 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D585B2E2C9 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2022 22:47:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:51648 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n5abF-0003SZ-0A for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 16:47:09 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45484) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n5aaS-0003R9-Jg for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 16:46:20 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:53255) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n5aaP-0007ye-P6 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 16:46:20 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1641505552; bh=ScQDqmc1UKvmwbfemZRGUp+Sk/7/+5fdZoOSyuVJhuk=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=T+x9cwkb1DW9Jr/4MrrYgsHC5iKi3PiyE74jwda02vMgBSV7IkeBVLMaJzFkE4CBT USQGNGq28GWB74WQqW5uaCk+MxaeGw5YGRIL/XnIWWFpzx/Sj4kml9TaLEO+xla59G UA8WBcR2UFtUFmT12ym46MWvZNF+GdBU1o8//xi4= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from X260 ([185.107.13.4]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.184]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N2DxE-1mOBiA0GJK-013bkK; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 22:45:52 +0100 From: Rasmus To: mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr, tsd@tsdye.online Subject: Re: oc-biblatex and biblatex substyles References: <87mtlourwg.fsf@gmx.us> <8735n0ss2i.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2022 22:45:49 +0100 In-Reply-To: <8735n0ss2i.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> (Nicolas Goaziou's message of "Fri, 10 Dec 2021 10:54:45 +0100") Message-ID: <87k0fc4jxu.fsf@gmx.us> User-Agent: Emacs Gnus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:3od8IR7+a6DDqhdAdvYo8yhXdmVM/ErMk+PFvcqs3x4c9BUlcRe FQN30zy0DsqmpXSmjg1rAvVtdC6Co3e9HfDB6hZ9dCZ4k+kpVuGf0MNSDckqfjyn5pAI5TR xoWiuyu36IcIJKHnbUeq8bySh9ZJ9PnoocRkNStcKbR8XNhl5jkGeDYmAevqYzQ77PMoZ1w N1La7iudtOZ+p2QbsphXw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:bryMGz2L9Kw=:DUgyWDypxIBxdMXQ9FQrza NO35wsR9g8ryBJy7BcISwSEaZeqIXBY1bK2WQnCYcxzAyNB8c8rajYTlAuBwVMcvYtLaMgo7E Wag5gpixjBkCDc+1W2r4AC2KInmez8OU3xrcFMCuW2/UV1Wqh6J4dnQWaxTpxflkQBX2c4OwU H7Ikmr8ARNK9jGHEWMNwXuD9AYFT914c859rSCcUZzmhXKFb2OXwWnpfo5OQtJZ7MRGSGyMUG tf48PpkgGBaz6WTADu+0Kwg/b3jdBmHK6TxVoc2dEui6EdOn8lvGWerzgeBn2bUmuNbNSMHy/ OhZiuLZIL3xd0yixU3Mh8G0WUXODh/fNNwjRHZVTnx9quidY27wdnKnViXTWUdY4WrrxTUjrr tpuWZ3MchM5aFczJCfWolBmjoccw3C/pyZ5xf9prSTd5t2FgefA8SCC9XbGrrltOjnswP4+K7 GTWu4shTU7BiA89NgIa6or4fTbCJF7KtlXxiRlmiMTWcYToPeSzuwprW0hkk4HzANk5Tz29K1 7Xbu0tV+/yUopN8Zk2LuT+GX2sx/bMxIJi5XxPnB3tUsBdoxZZFa/dR04sB0iGBgwnAMufooy Pb+xS7TdEnf7/+tqaqwmGMk5lgFKR3pblQ52aqRmcQkObY8Gx0RKmOJF7xxTnH7Fb+gvdY0cH oVPbsVkknaw04XozjwPbmsgBZNxKP3bJ8nNkAU2DVgdEUHx1Cst8wTkv+qgPVmZnb2pGYF5YJ OHA/h76JYKWnwT3mp24qkLx2pD9YO8zxbAXJ9m1k+FPIT6Q21g5ZiDgHoJO9KLgkSpBPtl1Rn 56l6+cmgqrnI6yaD/22RMMXPy00qhtzXnsIm2yy3mvbdRWTNpXcXnFELHoXcU8N9Sk4zDCK0z mgkWEFWLaN/Fxt4Z0e0Uu7Ro0SgMBmsy31SHFSwtf/lOXATFJF9jsN5y/PVEFgbsDAgVwWItu VO/WJAp5PRt0WRABIlm/ngcVoXp2gSKGbe3XAt22TgM4i9onIGw2gC0jmkkAbhccdmaJ0nBHj JFoChl5RReqZey+AgU2TnMLlFChXpGMgzCgb3pnDwsDrofk8lsLzUEE7tQBry4z/rvFoob9Nl tKCqTgbvuRqQXs= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.15; envelope-from=rasmus@gmx.us; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1641505629; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=gYyt788+xeTSsNn8CnJwGAbSHgjzYikimF7kz/AC9g8=; b=UidMzqcLw4rdZ2MLrSkozp5u4lHNUNlm/TeuDaI2lethD0QkZoJ6PVI7O75c3/jXlAAixi w+hR7pJKnv1QDA1I6OnVetitTULQc6c0XS6I27zQ2XcrGcQKdF0LHCsoDerGOZEgWkwTQa 0Q+Z8TpNJxu14SAivRAW3PNAeRowJzcmv7V03HcRtCqg1s3gQZ0AlAlRSKf8lD17oKeeap +obuYt5XI83wZW0vYRdx6xi+4A91CdgG2Pi8RC8QxVS8MFnDhc6IL0WhWeradRFpXgBbhH KQnNpb0DL93ZZn8iWaxjMrg6kkpAm1JoKSVVh3rNGLztNI/6AvfASngZr8nUsg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1641505629; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=UgIJCamsf4Qr8gwu5YUNuaH8/m9GA/O3mAFMF9Hj5+pqkE+2s/vlIOUIorc1RTaoEzz07r gtZ1bwqGfmTVJZBXu7/ylz67ofPv4BQbZKACBaHZLYpg/ZYEaLvZkKVpMpA6ef8PZrBuVc jrxd4Wr1KVW+NkfTUOAJ0oXeJXnwD7W4Cv/XULN1Mv5X/tS8GNrQJKAKqPNKaFYtlbk1ao OXBJ5Q22bEnvj+jY2fGqGO3Wry9RzUN+j9mazLILq6curuO+AdXa1xV+Zu8xitC1PWO+sU UpS2mflzd/LEzBpD0RwFijiYSqe6RMGUdfNP+Sb/BfNzA7eK0Lz8cMXuggvpww== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmx.net header.s=badeba3b8450 header.b=T+x9cwkb; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), DKIM not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmx.us (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.79 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmx.net header.s=badeba3b8450 header.b=T+x9cwkb; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), DKIM not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmx.us (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: D585B2E2C9 X-Spam-Score: -3.79 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: GGTXYvqvXac2 Hi there, Sorry for the slow reply. Nicolas Goaziou writes: > Hello, > > Rasmus writes: > >> I wonder if oc-biblatex should support loading biblatex-derived librarie= s, >> e.g. biblatex-chicago? >> >> There=E2=80=99s a quite a few of these libraries: >> >> $ tlmgr search --global "biblatex-" | wc -l >> 66 >> >> (This is somewhat overestimating the true number of =E2=80=9Cbiblatex-*= =E2=80=9D >> packages). >> >> These libraries are typically nie because they are (i) easier to configu= re >> than biblatex for a specific style and (ii) actually support some >> \usepackage keywords that can=E2=80=99t be used by biblatex (e.g. ibidtr= acker for >> biblatex-chicago). >> >> Thus, it might be able to at least support >> >> #+cite_export: biblatex-$SUBSTYLE >> >> E.g. #+cite_export: biblatex-chicago. But oc-biblatex would likely also >> have to be able to pickup biblatex-* packages in >> org-latex-(default-)packages-alist... >> >> So maybe it=E2=80=99s a can of worms? > > I don't know enough about BibLaTeX to answer that question. What does it > entail to "support loading biblatex-derived libraries" in practical > terms? I assume \usepackage{biblatex-chicago} instead of > \usepackage{biblatex}, with a different set of options and commands, > too. For the most part it should be drop in replacements. I don=E2=80=99t think= any user commands are *removed* from a derived style. But options to the package could be added an user commands could be added. > It may be possible to define a new variable, e.g., > =E2=80=98org-cite-biblatex-package=E2=80=98, defaulting to ("bilatex" . n= il). It would > contain entries like (SUBSTYLE . OPTIONS) and would be used to build the > proper \usepackage invocation. Maybe that is the best way to go about. Then at least we could support the main styles out there. I guess Chicago covers most of the social sciences? I guess the humanities use APA? I don=E2=80=99t know how differ= ent biblatex-apa is though. There are also obscure styles. E.g. a student once used biblatex-aer which is a derived style of biblatex-chicago that makes it look like a famous journal. > I also plan to allow custom commands in "oc-biblatex.el", so it could > also handle commands introduced by the substyles. > > How we would select substyle from the document is not clear, tho. If we want to support arbitrary styles somewhat I guess something like #+cite_export: biblatex-$SUBSTYLE would be ok. But it would not necessarily be full support. > Another possibility it to write, e.g., "oc-biblatex-chicago.el" and > define a new =E2=80=98biblatex-chicago=E2=80=99 export processor, re-usin= g most > functions from "oc-biblatex.el". It would probably only be necessary to > re-define =E2=80=98org-cite-biblatex-export-citation=E2=80=99 and > =E2=80=98org-cite-biblatex-prepare-preamble=E2=80=99. I guess you (and Tom) is right that it would be better to make a derived st= yle. Tom, did you already make a derived style? From the later emails it sounded like it, but I don=E2=80=99t see oc-biblatex-chicago.el in the main= repo. Otherwise, I can have try to have a go at it over the coming weeks. Kind regards and terribly sorry again for missing the follow ups earlier, Rasmus --=20 In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice they are not