From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id SH6sHnG9LmNyggAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2022 10:18:57 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id 6Kq8HnG9LmNf0QAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2022 10:18:57 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F29DCEBC3 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2022 10:18:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:37528 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oc0NE-0003sB-6g for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2022 04:18:56 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53638) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oc0JO-0001uC-Mz for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2022 04:14:58 -0400 Received: from forward501o.mail.yandex.net ([37.140.190.203]:49910) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oc0JL-0005gQ-CP for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2022 04:14:57 -0400 Received: from vla5-1ef2161cc1d7.qloud-c.yandex.net (vla5-1ef2161cc1d7.qloud-c.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:c18:3607:0:640:1ef2:161c]) by forward501o.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 5549345C4381; Sat, 24 Sep 2022 11:14:49 +0300 (MSK) Received: by vla5-1ef2161cc1d7.qloud-c.yandex.net (smtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id 2OjOpgYZrK-EmjOKr4H; Sat, 24 Sep 2022 11:14:48 +0300 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client certificate not present) X-Yandex-Fwd: 1 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.com; s=mail; t=1664007289; bh=2E5mRTNmzVak3uoERREbui118iMQh+JcGRaA8oLN+FE=; h=Message-ID:References:Date:Reply-To:Cc:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; b=ZBnViIMZ3aiUW1BU/rPjqE3vA52dkA8/Z6CNJLAPsrl71xZ/x16W6incz+j8TC8DZ 0apucrIWPY2jtsAKzAXkYwPZG9Q00Hh0boNtw8rZw1astZfiFvwDtdBx1TDEWwrzyJ NERv2lYjUkZpvOQo7FGoY5VUqKqOkkIaO7fqE4D0= From: Colin Baxter To: Tim Cross Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: refresh not working for org-mode from git In-Reply-To: <86sfkhmu1l.fsf@gmail.com> (Tim Cross's message of "Sat, 24 Sep 2022 11:12:18 +1000") References: <87illec6qa.fsf@yandex.com> <86sfkhmu1l.fsf@gmail.com> X-Face: BHjiJOg/Qmj'BQgsAKL@])L)e62P)C"Y=6T Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2022 09:14:47 +0100 Message-ID: <87k05tw5mw.fsf@yandex.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAEkAAAATAgMAAAChCMjeAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAACVBMVEX/zAABCWP///8I RHjYAAAAAWJLR0QCZgt8ZAAAAAlwSFlzAAALEwAACxMBAJqcGAAAAAd0SU1FB+UFEAk5BvqS634A AAAbSURBVBjTY2BgCA1hYA0FAxDDgQEERsXoIAYA2F9Eb3cpB+AAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRl ADIwMjItMDgtMTZUMTI6MDA6NTYrMDE6MDCRhRhWAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIxLTA1 LTE2VDA5OjU3OjA2KzAxOjAwTyZ6HwAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=37.140.190.203; envelope-from=m43cap@yandex.com; helo=forward501o.mail.yandex.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: m43cap@yandex.com Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1664007537; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=2E5mRTNmzVak3uoERREbui118iMQh+JcGRaA8oLN+FE=; b=QgChp96hKvcSdYjiKsNhYTrpCyiBAM0FuQeXgtLVfXFpETSY5CW1xUtWmTevhSGNGazv4N cvxXbVPEbfmVlZz1ety/R7Oc9c+ZafgttTnKvxJ/wtNj+95ZPbDz2j8XsGSbD7WQhPIxkE TdUTAw/jZotEFQjmxXt0HTh1hxB97qnk/4Uu29EZAWTFpZeQVwKOs0hqjRpbDPZcp+V/88 XU8FzajXUAi0pPUm4IK5jdZy1FHAav6HQKNWlE3VMI/eD8ZahQvs0D6ORgo3uVwwiuA8kp r5JH45+sxpXFRw/BubkwhZ5cFrSwHAmC66UlRNNCDAH//Xuf+x8E38Su8lDtQA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1664007537; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=phPLCm80FpQc6QVFflcAcQixBs8rkcbvUTwCv6MNLcYiO9MXLL48JMhkIl7zb4CI2+6+nJ mcxjHg1SPVpPF9Lgj0fwRcMW1zz45biTVPoaCeQBPieT5K0LVjC3yJDvQxvwwfzv0csKhf ZHN/ZhDZqH/wKMBuRTyGJeeRrma19F/K0uCeCnazVi4jybqX5iLNu0ZTt51Vbz5rkol80O l/Krf2NeMiWsBBbyfttTSOKgnF6UMmNSwjSxtArxswQOTFgRmxomr1wZw8ThuUtKalpOcM 6n1ESCQhTX/argI0t1j4T+akf2FYY6EJ2jWOsBLHZoLxgEl4c3FP+v+0CG3Zcw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=yandex.com header.s=mail header.b=ZBnViIMZ; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=yandex.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.16 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=yandex.com header.s=mail header.b=ZBnViIMZ; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=yandex.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: F29DCEBC3 X-Spam-Score: -4.16 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 3pqzkIPmL8kG Thank you for your detailed reply. >>>>> Tim Cross writes: > Colin Baxter writes: >> Recently, if I use C-c C-x ! to refresh org-mode after a git >> pull, I get an error. I then have to close down emacs and launch >> again. This rather defeats the object of C-c C-x !. This appears >> to have happened only recently ----------------- snip --------------------------------- > I wasn't aware that command even existed. However, I suspect it > will cause issues in your use case. I'm not sure it is a good > command to actually have given the complexities associated with > getting a clean org build. > In many cases, you may not run into issues - especially if you do > a git pull frequently. However, I can see various scenarios which > will lead to inconsistent builds. I suspect the error you are > seeing is the result of recent work to try and identify builds > which are likely to result in an inconsistent 'mixed' version > build. That could well be the case here because the technique used to work up until quite recently (~2 weeks) > Detecting such scenarios is difficult and relies on a > number of heuristics, one of which is to flag a problem if the > loaded version and the target build version don't match. > A lot would depend on how you build (re-compile) org mode after > doing a git pull. If you compile it in a separate Emacs instance, > you should have less issues and reloading after the build will > likely work. However, if your trying to build org mode within the > running Emacs where you have already loaded org mode, I suspect > you will run into issues. You have a slight 'chicken and egg' > issue and will run into similar issues as the common mixed build > problems. Normally, I use `M-x vc-dir' to update from git, then `M-x compile' followed by `make clean' and `make'. Finally, update org-mode in the same emacs with an org-mode buffer present. As I said, it used to work well. > One thing which might work would be to ensure you run the reload > command with the option to load from uncompiled sources BEFORE you > run the build process and then re-run the load command after the > build (loading compiled versions this time). Yes, I will try that. And I will also ring all the other changes to see what happens --- if anything. > I have no idea how things might break given the new native > compilation modes in Emacs. I suspect it will cause all sorts of > issue with your workflow. I have avoided problems here by not using native compilation. I did try it once in the past, but I didn't think it was worth the candle since frankly I didn't notice any change in emacs performance, possibly because I only do simple things with emacs. > Personally, I always update org in a fresh instance of Emacs > (before any org functionality is loaded) and I would always > restart Emacs after updating a major packages like org mode. I'm > not sure why we have the reload command - I suspect it may be a > hang over from earlier attempts to work around the mixed build > problem. I do suspect that given new native compilation modes and > the additional complexity ths can cause, combined with increasing > org mode complexity, the notion of being able to pull down a new > version, build and reload it within one emacs instance is perhaps > flawed or at the very least, is more complex than just forcing a > reload of org *.elc files. Indeed. Emacs seems to have became a rather complex beast in recent years. Perhaps it was ever thus. Best wishes, Colin.