Conflict between Org-Mode versions?

Conflict between Org-Mode versions?

[Michael Hannon]

Greetings.  I'm trying to learn about Org-Mode.  My goal is mainly to learn to
use the Babel extension, but I'm trying to get a good feel for Org-Mode before
I do that.

I've been having some difficulties with inconsistencies between the behavior
described in Org-Mode tutorials and the behavior of Org-Mode on my system.
(And yes, I have read the FAQ about this; please bear with me.)

I'm running Emacs 23.2.1 on a Fedora 14 linux (64-bit) system.  This version
of Emacs came with Org-Mode 6.x installed.

Having read about the rapid evolution of Org-Mode, I downloaded the latest
stable version, 7.5.  I've appended the Org-related portion of my .emacs file.
It appears to me that my local (7.5) version of Org-Mode should supersede the
version (6.x) that came in the Fedora package, i.e., based on the position in
"load-path".

This made things a little saner, but it didn't eliminate the inconsistencies.
I was afraid that, despite the above, there might be some interplay between
the original Org-Mode and the version that I downloaded, so I removed the
entire org directory:

    /usr/share/emacs/23.2/lisp/org

Is there something else that I can/should do to make sure that the original
Org-Mode is really gone?

Here are a couple of the inconsistencies to which I've been referring:

    (1) When I use C-c C-t to mark a task as DONE, no timestamp appears.

    (2) When I use the construct:

            [[URL] [description]]

        the line does NOT collapse to:

            "description"

        when I add the closing bracket, and if I export to HTML or PDF, I
        get the whole ugly line, brackets and all.

Please understand that I don't have any burning need to solve these exact
problems.  I'd just like the tutorial material to work as advertised on my
system.

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

-- Mike

Appendix: The part of my .emacs file that pertains to Org-Mode
--------------------------------------------------------------

(setq load-path (cons "/usr/local/org/org-7.5/lisp" load-path))
(setq load-path (cons "/usr/local/org/org-7.5/contrib/lisp" load-path))
(require 'org-install)

(org-babel-do-load-languages
  'org-babel-load-languages
  '((emacs-lisp . t)
    (R . t)
    (python . t)
    (sh . t)
   )
)

(require 'ob-R)
(require 'ob-python)
(require 'ob-sh)

(defun my-org-confirm-babel-evaluate (lang body)
    (not (or (string= lang "R")
             (string= lang "python")
             (string= lang "sh")
         )
    )
)

(setq org-confirm-babel-evaluate 'my-org-confirm-babel-evaluate)

Re: Conflict between Org-Mode versions?

[Nick Dokos]

[forgot to cc: the list]

Michael Hannon <jm_hannon@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Is there something else that I can/should do to make sure that the original
> Org-Mode is really gone?
> 

Restart your emacs to make sure that you don't have any remnants, but
otherwise this seems fine to me.

> Here are a couple of the inconsistencies to which I've been referring:
> 
>     (1) When I use C-c C-t to mark a task as DONE, no timestamp appears.

What is the setting of org-log-done? Do C-h v org-log-done <RET>

> 
>     (2) When I use the construct:
> 
>             [[URL] [description]]
                    ^
                    ^                 
No space here       ^

>         the line does NOT collapse to:
> 
>             "description"
> 
>         when I add the closing bracket, and if I export to HTML or PDF, I
>         get the whole ugly line, brackets and all.
> 

Nick

Re: Conflict between Org-Mode versions?

[Michael Hannon]

> From: Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>


>> Is there something else that I can/should do to make sure that the original
>> Org-Mode is really gone?
>> 

>Restart your emacs to make sure that you don't have any remnants, but
>otherwise this seems fullproof to me.

Hi, Nick.  Yes, I did restart Emacs but had the same problems.

>> Here are a couple of the inconsistencies to which I've been referring:
>> 
>>     (1) When I use C-c C-t to mark a task as DONE, no timestamp appears.

> What is the setting of org-log-done? Do C-h v org-log-done <RET>

Bingo.  Setting that variable to true caused the time stamps to appear.

FWIW, in Emacs I typed:

    C-h v org<TAB>

and got no fewer than 931 completions.  A lot of knobs to turn!

>> 
>>     (2) When I use the construct:
>> 
>>             [[URL] [description]]

>                    ^
>                    ^                
>No space here       ^

>>         the line does NOT collapse to:
>> 
>>             "description"
>> 
>>         when I add the closing bracket, and if I export to HTML or PDF, I
>>         get the whole ugly line, brackets and all.

Yep, omitting the space fixed the problem.  I guess I've got a knee-jerk
instinct to try to "pretty print", and I didn't notice the the "][" brackets
were contiguous in the example.

Thanks for your help.

-- Mike

Re: Conflict between Org-Mode versions?

[Jambunathan K]

>>> Is there something else that I can/should do to make sure that the original
>>> Org-Mode is really gone?
>>> 
>
>>Restart your emacs to make sure that you don't have any remnants, but
>>otherwise this seems fullproof to me.
>
> Hi, Nick.  Yes, I did restart Emacs but had the same problems.

Use M-x locate-library RET org RET to find out where org (or whatever)
comes from.

Jambunathan K.

-- 

Re: Conflict between Org-Mode versions?

[Michael Hannon]

> From: Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com>



>>>> Is there something else that I can/should do to make sure that the
>>>> original
>>>> Org-Mode is really gone?
>>>> 
>>
>>>Restart your emacs to make sure that you don't have any remnants, but
>>>otherwise this seems fullproof to me.
>>
>> Hi, Nick.  Yes, I did restart Emacs but had the same problems.
>
>Use M-x locate-library RET org RET to find out where org (or whatever)
>comes from.

Thanks, Jambunathan.  That's a good tip, and it does indicate that I'm using
the correct version (7.5).

I just don't know enough about the inner workings of Emacs to know if the
location of the library completely defines the package.  I.e., a package in
linux (or other versions of *nix) might distribute files in:

    /etc/foo
    /usr/bin/foo
    /usr/include/foo.h
    /usr/lib/foo

and so on.  I was concerned that I was doing the logical equivalent of
deleting, say, /usr/bin/foo but not deleting, say, the logical equivalent of
/usr/lib/foo and, as a consequence, getting some kind of a mismatch.

So far, the verdict seems to be that it's my ignorance of Org-mode and not the
software that's the problem.

-- Mike

Re: Conflict between Org-Mode versions?

[Eric S Fraga]

Michael Hannon <jm_hannon@yahoo.com> writes:

[...]

> FWIW, in Emacs I typed:
>
>     C-h v org<TAB>
>
> and got no fewer than 931 completions.  A lot of knobs to turn!

yes, indeed!  the info manual is your friend here.  it is very difficult
to figure out what you need to set from just the list of org- variables.

>
>>> 
>>>     (2) When I use the construct:
>>> 
>>>             [[URL] [description]]
>
>>                    ^
>>                    ^                
>>No space here       ^
>
>>>         the line does NOT collapse to:
>>> 
>>>             "description"
>>> 
>>>         when I add the closing bracket, and if I export to HTML or PDF, I
>>>         get the whole ugly line, brackets and all.
>
> Yep, omitting the space fixed the problem.  I guess I've got a knee-jerk
> instinct to try to "pretty print", and I didn't notice the the "][" brackets
> were contiguous in the example.

The best approach here is to use some of the specific functions (often
with already defined key bindings) that are set up for just this type of
case: =org-insert-link= in this case.  These will insert things with the
right formatting automatically!

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.0.50.1
: using Org-mode version 7.5 (release_7.5.209.g1a687)

Re: Conflict between Org-Mode versions?

[Michael Hannon]

> From: Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk>


> [...]

>> FWIW, in Emacs I typed:
>>
>>     C-h v org<TAB>
>>
>> and got no fewer than 931 completions.  A lot of knobs to turn!
> 
> yes, indeed!  the info manual is your friend here.  it is very difficult
> to figure out what you need to set from just the list of org- variables.

Heh.  Yes, thanks, Eric.  I'm not crazy enough to try to bootstrap my way
through 900+ variables, but that sets the scale of the challenge for me.

>>>> 
>>>>     (2) When I use the construct:
>>>> 
>>>>             [[URL] [description]]
>>
>>>                    ^
>>>                    ^ 
>>>No space here       ^
>>
>>>>         the line does NOT collapse to:
>>>> 
>>>>             "description"
>>>> 
>>>>         when I add the closing bracket, and if I export to HTML or PDF, I
>>>>         get the whole ugly line, brackets and all.
>>
>> Yep, omitting the space fixed the problem.  I guess I've got a knee-jerk
>> instinct to try to "pretty print", and I didn't notice the the "][" brackets
>> were contiguous in the example.
>
> The best approach here is to use some of the specific functions (often
> with already defined key bindings) that are set up for just this type of
> case: =org-insert-link= in this case.  These will insert things with the
> right formatting automatically!

Very good suggestion!  I just used C-c C-l to add a link, and, of course, it
worked perfectly (as did the manual edit suggested by Nick D.).  I note that
by my count there are no fewer than 1612 "org*" functions ;-)

Thanks again.

-- Mike

Re: Conflict between Org-Mode versions?

[Nick Dokos]

Michael Hannon <jm_hannon@yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
> > From: Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk>
> 
> 
> > [...]
> 
> >> FWIW, in Emacs I typed:
> >>
> >>     C-h v org<TAB>
> >>
> >> and got no fewer than 931 completions.  A lot of knobs to turn!
> > 
> > yes, indeed!  the info manual is your friend here.  it is very difficult
> > to figure out what you need to set from just the list of org- variables.
> 
> Heh.  Yes, thanks, Eric.  I'm not crazy enough to try to bootstrap my way
> through 900+ variables, but that sets the scale of the challenge for me.
> 

IIRC, Carsten had run a poll for the nomination of the 50 most-use{d|ful}
variables. The results must be somewhere (Worg? Mailing list?). That
would probably serve as a better starting point than a 931-element list
with no other indicator of importance.

Also, Bernt's document (http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html ) probably
contains settings for most (if not all) of the important variables.

After that, you can start looking at more obscure ones. Many of those
were introduced as part of a user-requested feature, so you can probably
get some background information on them by searching the mailing list.

> > The best approach here is to use some of the specific functions (often
> > with already defined key bindings) that are set up for just this type of
> > case: =org-insert-link= in this case.  These will insert things with the
> > right formatting automatically!
> 
> Very good suggestion!  I just used C-c C-l to add a link, and, of course, it
> worked perfectly (as did the manual edit suggested by Nick D.).  I note that
> by my count there are no fewer than 1612 "org*" functions ;-)
> 

Be ready to explain them all by heart. Quiz tomorrow.

Nick

Re: Conflict between Org-Mode versions?

[Michael Hannon]

> From: Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>


[...]

>> Heh.  Yes, thanks, Eric.  I'm not crazy enough to try to bootstrap my way
>> through 900+ variables, but that sets the scale of the challenge for me.
>> 

> IIRC, Carsten had run a poll for the nomination of the 50 most-use{d|ful}
> variables. The results must be somewhere (Worg? Mailing list?). That would
> probably serve as a better starting point than a 931-element list with no
> other indicator of importance.

> Also, Bernt's document (http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html ) probably
> contains settings for most (if not all) of the important variables.

That's a very useful link.  Thanks, Nick.

> After that, you can start looking at more obscure ones. Many of those
> were introduced as part of a user-requested feature, so you can probably
> get some background information on them by searching the mailing list.

>> [...]I note that  by my count there are no fewer than 1612 "org*"
>> functions ;-)

> Be ready to explain them all by heart. Quiz tomorrow.

Umm, snow day?  Field trip?  Wait, feel my forehead!

-- Mike

Re: Conflict between Org-Mode versions?

[Nick Dokos]

Michael Hannon <jm_hannon@yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
> > From: Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>
> 
> 
> [...]
> 
> >> Heh.  Yes, thanks, Eric.  I'm not crazy enough to try to bootstrap my way
> >> through 900+ variables, but that sets the scale of the challenge for me.
> >> 
> 
> > IIRC, Carsten had run a poll for the nomination of the 50 most-use{d|ful}
> > variables. The results must be somewhere (Worg? Mailing list?). That would
> > probably serve as a better starting point than a 931-element list with no
> > other indicator of importance.
> 

Here is a link to basic customization:

     http://orgmode.org/worg/org-configs/org-customization-guide.html

It includes a link to the list of "40 variables that are changed by
many users".

Nick

Re: Conflict between Org-Mode versions?

[Michael Hannon]

> From: Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>
> [...]
> Here is a link to basic customization:
> 
>     http://orgmode.org/worg/org-configs/org-customization-guide.html
> 
> It includes a link to the list of "40 variables that are changed by
> many users".

Very useful.  Thanks again, Nick.

-- Mike

Re: Conflict between Org-Mode versions?

[Memnon Anon]

Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> writes:

> IIRC, Carsten had run a poll for the nomination of the 50 most-use{d|ful}
> variables. The results must be somewhere (Worg? Mailing list?). That
> would probably serve as a better starting point than a 931-element list
> with no other indicator of importance.

,----[http://orgmode.org/worg/org-configs/org-customization-survey.html ?]
| Date: 2011-04-28 13:46:43 UTC
| Author: Charles Cave
| Org version 7.5 with Emacs version 23
`----

But it somehow feels wrong to ask a html page for a "better starting
point" ...  

To clarify wrong: Not "emacsy'.

-Memnon

Re: Conflict between Org-Mode versions?

[Jambunathan K]

Memnon Anon <gegendosenfleisch@googlemail.com> writes:

> Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> writes:
>
>> IIRC, Carsten had run a poll for the nomination of the 50 most-use{d|ful}
>> variables. The results must be somewhere (Worg? Mailing list?). That
>> would probably serve as a better starting point than a 931-element list
>> with no other indicator of importance.
>
> ,----[http://orgmode.org/worg/org-configs/org-customization-survey.html ?]
> | Date: 2011-04-28 13:46:43 UTC
> | Author: Charles Cave
> | Org version 7.5 with Emacs version 23
> `----
>
> But it somehow feels wrong to ask a html page for a "better starting
> point" ...  
>
> To clarify wrong: Not "emacsy'.

Since worg is backed by .org files one could always make it 'orgy' and
hence "emacsy"

http://repo.or.cz/w/Worg.git/blob_plain/HEAD:/org-configs/org-customization-survey.org

One can also look at the parent dir or ancestors for more 'orgy' stuff
http://repo.or.cz/w/Worg.git/tree/HEAD:/org-configs

ps: Sorry for about the evil pun

Jambunathan K.
--