From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id EKPAIrX5kF4TCAAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 22:56:53 +0000 Received: from aspmx2.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id 8NyZArf5kF5UUAAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 22:56:55 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx2.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D930682CC4 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 22:56:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:39744 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jN2Zu-0003Yn-Uv for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 18:56:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52288) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jN2ZW-0003Yf-8A for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 18:56:27 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jN2ZU-0004pN-F3 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 18:56:25 -0400 Received: from relay10.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.230]:58753) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jN2ZU-0004o2-9A for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 18:56:24 -0400 Received: from localhost (40-67.ipv4.commingeshautdebit.fr [185.131.40.67]) (Authenticated sender: admin@nicolasgoaziou.fr) by relay10.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6FB3C240004; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 22:56:20 +0000 (UTC) From: Nicolas Goaziou To: denis.maier.lists@mailbox.org Subject: Re: wip-cite status question and feedback References: <777184861.71192.1586510991834@office.mailbox.org> Mail-Followup-To: denis.maier.lists@mailbox.org, "emacs-orgmode\@gnu.org" Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 00:56:19 +0200 In-Reply-To: <777184861.71192.1586510991834@office.mailbox.org> (denis maier lists's message of "Fri, 10 Apr 2020 11:29:51 +0200 (CEST)") Message-ID: <87imi72bn0.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 217.70.178.230 X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=default; t=1586559413; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=kBph3A/S5sjlewisAxd+9lWTDFq3iRFSdCbHE8wwMjI=; b=RutBDpOctNE9/n0dm0HsBdrJjPlE39Zn+qALHQPyzymdslMQPdB58KPQCCASxx7E36Erqz cZJBXKN14HXK7dls8xQY1bSL8YlVg1GxTOn9TL0ySmTQBpGEGKYCTWb9Ap3lTha3YhLqhk 13lqb5DdA7P2AYvdlq/IkF1XMXezOMc= ARC-Seal: i=1; s=default; d=yhetil.org; t=1586559413; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=H2gmMDSF36G7Jel1s8LR/PYOzagRFWyoDmZo6caRBEDXtNdUkIrmK4fMqR3FgtmU18o6+Y uKBxOMT5UB4HL04bZwFMula3OqxMGgXTJbWbQfJViinbpHk8H7KpLK3Y18pisTvomOxC2J 0Tbagr+P6Dndqlls+ywUqyrF3qnzVik= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx2.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx2.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Scanner: scn0 X-Spam-Score: -1.01 Authentication-Results: aspmx2.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx2.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Scan-Result: default: False [-1.01 / 13.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; GENERIC_REPUTATION(0.00)[-0.58000117520911]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.51.188.0/24:c]; IP_REPUTATION_HAM(0.00)[asn: 22989(0.30), country: US(-0.01), ip: 209.51.188.17(-0.58)]; ARC_SIGNED(0.00)[i=1]; MX_GOOD(-0.50)[cached: eggs.gnu.org]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILLIST(-0.20)[mailman]; FORGED_RECIPIENTS_MAILLIST(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22989, ipnet:209.51.188.0/24, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[larch=yhetil.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr,emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nicolasgoaziou.fr]; HAS_LIST_UNSUB(-0.01)[]; FORGED_SENDER_MAILLIST(0.00)[] X-TUID: 4bJtQOG75QRp Hello, denis.maier.lists@mailbox.org writes: > Bruce has already sent a link to Pandoc's org-mode Reader where you > can find the citation modes. The standard (markdown) implementation > can be found here: > https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/blob/f2b337768e95c8903f65e597f7d8cd81938dacc3/src/Text/Pandoc/Readers/Markdown.hs > Thank you. > Anyway, currently there are basically three modes: > - NormalCitation > - SuppressAuthor > - AuthorInText [...] > So: > [@doe] => NormalCitation > [-@doe] => SuppressAuthor > @doe argues ... => AuthorInText > -@doe [23] => SuppressAuthor Let's assume Org implements SuppressAuthor as "-@doe", so far it has: | Syntax | Mode | Sample output | |---------------------------+---------------------------------+---------------| | @doe or [cite:@doe] | AuthorInText | Doe (2020) | | -@doe or [cite:-@doe] | AuthorInText + SuppressAuthor | (2020) | | [@doe] or [(cite):@doe] | NormalCitation | (Doe, 2020) | | [-@doe] or [(cite):-@doe] | NormalCitation + SuppressAuthor | (2020) | So, we could mix suppress author with some other style, although this seems useless for the time being. Current syntax is not great because it is ad-hoc, and not very future-proof, if new modes appear. Also, the "(cite)" key is a bit mouthful, "citep" might have been prettier. Anyway, is it complete enough? Also, there is some ambiguity between modes applying reference-wise, i.e., "suppress author", and modes applying to the whole reference, i.e., NormalCitation and AuthorInText. Therefore, I'm wondering: has the following any meaning? [cite: -@doe; @foo] [(cite): -@doe; @foo] > Depending on CSL's future development there might well be other > citations modes. I personally think there's much to learn from > biblatex, but that's a different debate... As a related node, from Biblatex, we may also need, e.g., [(Cite):...], but this was rejected for some reason a long time ago. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou