From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id qAq2LfpIxF8mfQAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 01:20:58 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id KHaIKfpIxF/5CAAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 01:20:58 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15CFD940222 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 01:20:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:50012 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kjXs9-0002V5-1N for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 20:20:57 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48080) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kjXrP-0002Uu-Nu for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 20:20:12 -0500 Received: from mail-pj1-x102c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::102c]:50236) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kjXrN-0003dE-6t for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 20:20:10 -0500 Received: by mail-pj1-x102c.google.com with SMTP id e5so275855pjt.0 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 17:20:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id :date:mime-version; bh=IAv0/1nWqAEn3sCgIJW3OzxtuyHUd15r6CkzjeYwc+8=; b=JI5I4oeidQKv4lBg+Djc5sYGLEV7LnAFvpx1RwcbeRHWAE9ba4QkupxRP99+oLf/n8 KvLf9OVjLRxtXDHBuf3ViAN3i/P5Si3xXeqMU7lIcE9dXJ+NrtgLJdSaZqleQeacnoUc s3I5zs2gNTSDpq+tgnTbxBckwJIWua3kpVkBvMQ1CO4kluAGIPpkZ60fLkPg0nNS5vIl 6ToUfxg/sqEiUBd4M6BtIEGi44XVf4ZK9nJ1sKeuY5EM/g5th0QFJ0EMAT6eiu0w8iMo YkfXO4qmCgP9RMcpWgkArVTjPrHgVKLBeCqdW9R/nX5QoV8s5V/zGGMXbGFlkacRO6s7 XqPQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject :in-reply-to:message-id:date:mime-version; bh=IAv0/1nWqAEn3sCgIJW3OzxtuyHUd15r6CkzjeYwc+8=; b=VKsPPplluMI1Mlb3wDj6SG1mfCYP3CgbOOd769/AC7YWp24jBKevPiQb9a+3ffi9ep HZpCyMRDqEs7PTN7Y3wWQPBGPDFMHUgqmRz8LeAvBdaWduOcGmR7E2gV6U6rK+cA1cEd wYGIEvlxoPK6co81VsBcZF1wm378ha5pbO96FRysdpVUk+oH0JaOkryJx+kaKY+atG4n XAF+ZRIHchrv4+YDk7V6Fct24/BBRF1+i08vQhVDhqaPtLuJQwuffN4D1aKtowxvtaNB iqjGzfcVOIelOTcBgT5Lbe6ugPwJCrMj9M4eiPRjMxpUZO3CrV1RoXwrG46+6h8EGc4h gOlw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530yAKhHb8PUViRheGCxLsARFitPS8EtThaBGulAfwYs08c84pTI ZeACthBCRClyPrKTg+0f0/uuQeXxJqvWKg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw1jbPinPi34On9Q4Hx53XvXWaV7mCuQOhn8Km+yI12nzP3n76gHENboPXZgUuqXmHhkFtz4Q== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:ca93:: with SMTP id y19mr22853733pjt.71.1606699206937; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 17:20:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from tim-desktop (106-69-115-131.dyn.iinet.net.au. [106.69.115.131]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s30sm13968480pgl.39.2020.11.29.17.20.05 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 29 Nov 2020 17:20:06 -0800 (PST) References: <837dq4mcb1.fsf@gnu.org> <87ft4rrhad.fsf@kyleam.com> <87r1obyabn.fsf@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.5.7; emacs 27.1.50 From: Tim Cross To: daniela-spit@gmx.it Subject: Re: bug#44935: Emacs inserts hardwired org-agenda-files variable, overwriting user options In-reply-to: Message-ID: <87im9ny725.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 12:20:02 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::102c; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x102c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.98 X-Scanner: ns3122888.ip-94-23-21.eu Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=JI5I4oei; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-TUID: /SIYOXIgeiym daniela-spit@gmx.it writes: > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 at 1:09 AM >> From: "Tim Cross" >> To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >> Subject: Re: bug#44935: Emacs inserts hardwired org-agenda-files variable, overwriting user options >> >> >> daniela-spit@gmx.it writes: >> >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 10:51 PM >> >> From: "Gyro Funch" >> >> To: daniela-spit@gmx.it, "Kyle Meyer" >> >> Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >> >> Subject: Re[2]: bug#44935: Emacs inserts hardwired org-agenda-files variable, overwriting user options >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 10:20 PM >> >> >> From: "Kyle Meyer" >> >> >> To: daniela-spit@gmx.it >> >> >> Cc: "gyro funch" , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >> >> >> Subject: Re: bug#44935: Emacs inserts hardwired org-agenda-files variable, overwriting user options >> >> >> >> >> >>daniela-spit@gmx.it writes: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: "gyro funch" >> >> >> [...] >> >> >> >> If I'm not mistaken, all of the development is done by volunteers. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Perhaps you could help resolve your issue instead of asking other >> >> >> >> people, who are likely already overworked, to shoulder the burden. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Is there a mailing list for abuse? If I want abuse I shall ask for it. >> >> >> > Loser! >> >> > >> >> >> I don't see anything that gyro said as abuse. Name calling, on the >> >> >> other hand, has no place on this list. >> >> > >> >> >One asks for help, and people tell you to go fix it yourself. If there >> >> >is any disrespect, you bring it upon yourselves. And now you start. >> >> >Another Gnu Goon. >> >> >> >> I have found that people on this list are extremely friendly, courteous, >> >> and helpful. >> >> I suggest that you look back at the way you asked for/demanded help and >> >> the various responses you gave in this thread. >> >> Taking on an attitude of entitlement and showing a lack of respect for >> >> others, their perspectives, and efforts may not be the best way to get >> >> help. >> > >> > Nonsense. >> >> Not nonsense at all. You responses have become rude and unhelpful. I can >> understand how you may be frustrated by the bug reporting situation, but >> your response to that frustration has been to complain and be critical in >> a very non-constructive manner. You have now descended into name calling >> and personal abuse. You are beginning to exhibit behaviour >> which is not welcome here and which will result in people ignoring your >> posts. Multiple people have now pointed this out, which should make you >> stop and think rather than become emotional and respond defensively. >> >> the ball is now in your court. How you respond will influence how others >> respond to your requests and suggestions going forward. > > Look. First I was an an emacs mailing list, then was told that it was not > the right place. Then was directed to sent it here, etc etc. Then all the > talk about being volunteers and only do things when they like. WTF! > Even though it might not seem like it, many on this list, including me, understand your frustration. This is not the first time people have expressed frustration with how bug reports are managed on the list. However, what you are likely not ware of are many of the complicating factors involved which have made it difficult to implement a better solution. To understand that, you really need to look at the many threads on both the org and emacs development list where the issue of bug reporting has been discussed. You might say you don't care about all of that and just want to be able to easily report an issue and know it reaches the right people. That is fair enough. You may even have a need to express that frustration, which is also fair enough. However, attributing that failure to laziness, incompetence or lack of interest in doing something is not. Name calling and personal abuse is unacceptable regardless of the situation or level of frustration. Once you have expressed frustration about something, there is little gained by repetition. At the end of the day, it is how it is and if we cannot do something about it, such as providing a patch or improve the documentation or define a new process and work towards getting it implemented, we either have to accept it or walk away. -- Tim Cross