From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Pieter Praet Subject: Re: how to change the headline starter * Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 14:59:45 +0200 Message-ID: <87hb6ml6ta.fsf@praet.org> References: <1240511841.2591431310664738370.JavaMail.root@zimbra29-e5.priv.proxad.net> <874o2optjt.fsf@praet.org> <87hb6netf6.fsf@nzebook.haselwarter.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:51146) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qi4TI-0005PZ-QF for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 08:59:54 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qi4TG-0004oJ-LR for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 08:59:52 -0400 Received: from mail-ww0-f49.google.com ([74.125.82.49]:62391) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qi4TG-0004oD-89 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 08:59:50 -0400 Received: by wwf22 with SMTP id 22so1597211wwf.30 for ; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 05:59:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87hb6netf6.fsf@nzebook.haselwarter.org> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Philipp Haselwarter , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 12:21:01 +0200, Philipp Haselwarter wrote: > No need to go all flaming because someone thinks the looks of the > software matter. TBH I don't see what's wrong with that or in what way > that's the opposite of efficiency. What I considered "wrong" about it was the OP implying -twice- that a frivolous feature request such as this could be marked as being a full-caps "BUG" [1,2]. Considering all the time and effort Org-mode's selfless developers have sacrificed to deliver this mindblowing piece of software to us, this could easily be perceived as an insult in my opinion, regardless of whether or not it was intentional. I know that this doesn't justify the tone of my impulsive reply in any way whatsoever, and I do apologize for disrupting the serene atmosphere which characterizes this list, but... I sent it, and I stand behind it 100%. Besides, how could someone who cares about how slick and shiny their software looks *possibly* end up using Emacs? > Abstracting the user interface from the logic is an important paradigm, > especially for something like org-mode that you want to run on a wide > range of devices =E2=80=93 think 24" monitors vs 3" mobile devices. You d= on't > want to have too much of the looks hardcoded. Exactly! That is, believe it or not, the whole point. What the OP is suggesting effectively nullifies the separation between model and view in that it would allow changing Org-mode's outlining markup at its very core, potentially leading to a wildgrowth of "custom" markup formats which could hardly be called "plain text" anymore, not to mention the avalanche of PEBCAK-related bug reports it may unleash. > Now if you don't find that to be one of /your/ personal top priorities = =E2=80=93 > fine, don't bother. But going all bashing because someone insists on his > opinion that this is important? I don't see what you're trying to > achieve here. Pretty much since the very beginning, Org-mode has been described as: "Org is a mode for keeping notes, maintaining TODO lists, and doing project planning with a fast and effective plain-text system." Seeing as how this description hasn't changed ever since, one can safely assume that keeping the markup format sane (i.e. plain-text) and consistent (i.e. semi-standardized, so as not to complicate joint project planning) is a top priority for the entire Org-mode community. As for my personal priorities: I didn't start using Emacs solely because Org-mode *requires* me to, but because I care about getting my work done, as efficiently as possible. Mac/Windows-influenced non-features (and the code overhead they introduce) will undoubtedly interfere with that. IOW, a lack of certain "features" is an essential feature in and of itself. I guess what I'm trying to achieve is to keep Org-mode from slowly and inconspicuously devolving into something featuring transparent blinking 3D unicorn overlays with cherries on top. That's a gross exaggeration of course (one would hope), but I'm sure you catch my drift. >=20 > --=20 > Philipp Haselwarter >=20 >=20 Peace --=20 Pieter [1] id:"1016444425.2577651310651584384.JavaMail.root@zimbra29-e5.priv.proxa= d.net" [2] id:"1240511841.2591431310664738370.JavaMail.root@zimbra29-e5.priv.proxa= d.net"