From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id mBXGIkbuu2C6ZAAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 05 Jun 2021 23:36:06 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id 0J4YHkbuu2DiKAAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 05 Jun 2021 21:36:06 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D925C31788 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 2021 23:36:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:40364 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lpdxc-0005I0-0B for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 05 Jun 2021 17:36:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35344) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lpdxH-0005HG-UT for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jun 2021 17:35:43 -0400 Received: from relay10.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.230]:58047) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lpdxF-0006Li-IX for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jun 2021 17:35:43 -0400 Received: (Authenticated sender: admin@nicolasgoaziou.fr) by relay10.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BA7F4240002; Sat, 5 Jun 2021 21:35:37 +0000 (UTC) From: Nicolas Goaziou To: Denis Maier Subject: Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations References: <871raawc7j.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <4dd47d8d-5dd8-4769-7e2f-eb3438ba0b4a@mailbox.org> <87sg2orz0z.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <81051f87-a90e-56ed-7867-d6179ec1e9ad@mailbox.org> <139ff81d-4af6-1e75-f4c9-416032fc514f@mailbox.org> Mail-Followup-To: Denis Maier , Bruce D'Arcus , Org Mode List Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2021 23:35:36 +0200 In-Reply-To: <139ff81d-4af6-1e75-f4c9-416032fc514f@mailbox.org> (Denis Maier's message of "Mon, 17 May 2021 10:08:27 +0200") Message-ID: <87h7icatav.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.70.178.230; envelope-from=mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr; helo=relay10.mail.gandi.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Org Mode List , Bruce D'Arcus Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1622928966; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=qjE+VBG1lz2t2tIPu499Ho+L9/5qtKeBEBE2hOkKqRI=; b=KbdJpr63P8lQYWFy0SoNf07S+rmMoNcm+2DofvUPkwJkMbbQdrO2lGBGBSXBcYIn2M3G5z u9mxBj2zU/ek11gQu1AO3ie0ia9+TeFXbVleTxidsXmb02YcBZVIP39DI542P9vlndaCa/ g5Jhk997QvuTvXoUj8705hapB4sBLJzQdH5y8x+yMTLHKuY+IsLrHUxi8Pg3lC/KhEcwE/ oM4RYQ+16bSUFT71+XiooSFLw7a5HKAoAhHDxW/h025GOK3g5dD3HZ23ndwSNGk+NFxoha HbD/5rgDxm7hjDkSoGs2KQ3opsK+4trLR/YWLsIa14eFIIGX/1o1Bbx2bb1I3w== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1622928966; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=S2tauLl1iM5wliD46cJ3Oa1scO91/RqIVCYIRgw2paF/N1GArjpw3/2u+dmFMJZUx72uTV YBGRuHzdPFDN8Oj9FEyCVCGgAlj/apTBlGyDcTWBvLtcha2XAwDLTFJnS2hj5q32EtHnDJ oYra8H05+6LzSaJcDaM+zOSHkOAbHJBI6yGbHz+p7uRKO8zR2FnmoAm2hb4lXk84X2wONz TqDqIJMos5Dc+ER1601AKgfFW0C3w2tDmKVtavTrSs11tS6fsq0dsAf51bERjkfHWRnEzN VRIa59BQmEeXSE+KrD6svHpA04SW8cwDp4VePEAsPwL4YcuYfIQc4PxCtiKVZA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.93 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: D925C31788 X-Spam-Score: -0.93 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: vD2vLgiKiabm Hello, Denis Maier writes: > I think there are a couple of options and combinations thereof: > > 1. Do nothing special, just treat block quotations like regular paragraph= s. > > 2. Don't apply this punctuation-manipulation to blockquotes at all, i.e.= =20 > let authors handle this manually. > > 3. Adjust RULE in the manipulation function: Let it accept two patterns: > '((outside outside before) (outside outside after)) > The first would apply to inline quotations, the second to blockquotes. > > 4. IIUC, it's possible to set certain properties at block elements. So,=20 > maybe you could actually add citation information there, e.g.: > > #+BEGIN_QUOTE :cite @doe p.45 > This is a blockquote in its own paragraph. > #+END_QUOTE > > > Unsure about the syntax, but you get the idea. This should allow for=20 > complex manipulations: the citation can be added before or after the=20 > punctuation mark; if a journal requires quotation marks even around=20 > blockquotes =3D> just add them during export; if the period is not part o= f=20 > the original quotation you could just do this: > > #+BEGIN_QUOTE :cite @doe p.45 :punct . > This is a blockquote in its own paragraph > #+END_QUOTE > > > Then the period will be added during export, but if a journal wants an=20 > ellipsis in that case you can also just add that during export. > This is a blockquote in its own paragraph [...].[1] > > Now, this is of course rather complex and might add a lot of overhead. I= =20 > don't think users should be required to use this, but this could=20 > nevertheless be added as an additional and more powerful mechanism. > > 5. Don't apply punctuation-manipulation to individual blockquotes. > > #+BEGIN_QUOTE :punctuation-manipulation nil > This is a blockquote in its own paragraph. [@doe p. 45] > #+END_QUOTE > > (Maybe adding someting like this even for inline citations would be a=20 > good idea: "asdf." [cite: @doe p. 45 :punctuation-manipulation nil] > I can imagine many users will be happy with the automatism 95% of the=20 > time, but there will always be egde cases.) > > Again, as I've said above, a combination of these options might be the=20 > way to go. E.g., the default could be to disable=20 > punctuation-manipulation for blockquotes. In addition to that there=20 > could also be a properties based mechanism that offers more options.=20 > (Thinking more about it, 3 and 4 would actually also play nicely > together.) Getting back to this thread=E2=80=A6 I'd like to see it moving forward. You lost me here. Punctuation moving was implemented with notes cites in mind (much like Pandoc, I think). More exactly, punctuation shuffling may happen whenever a cite turns into a footnote. For any other case, the author is expected to place the cite object manually. So, the automation does not apply to blockquotes, in the sense that inline quotes or blockquotes use the same location for footnotes. Does that make sense? Regards, --=20 Nicolas Goaziou