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[61.245.128.160]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s16sm13201088pfu.109.2021.12.06.11.44.38 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 06 Dec 2021 11:44:39 -0800 (PST) From: Timothy To: Russell Adams Subject: Re: Concrete suggestions to improve Org mode third-party integration :: an afterthought following Karl Voit's Orgdown proposal Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2021 03:34:07 +0800 References: <878rwyi8bt.fsf@posteo.net> <87r1aqnu3q.fsf@gmail.com> <8735n6i4br.fsf@posteo.net> <796107.1638785063@apollo2.minshall.org> <87tufl6apx.fsf@posteo.net> <87bl1td20x.fsf@atlantis> <87o85to8wh.fsf@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.6.9; emacs 28.0.50 In-reply-to: Message-ID: <87h7bljz6j.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1032 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1032; envelope-from=tecosaur@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x1032.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -12 X-Spam_score: -1.3 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1638820057; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=N8P6wDlOVPMn6E7IZlKKOltI59AKX7MHnuN0InG7CiQ=; b=O6EVnXJpchU+hcrZ7NcmKtKjftJqG5Xx4m9thoopP+g/efqj4MzOTt0ES0TWJSKoLAyzFe 47r/josClM1UOpJMoEjffF78AkbXlLOUFmgsY2hhJMyJaS3HGfv7nNqIFMg5E+VylsCytA AJo+d82jpOIx7nK+q9aDSEWA/iB4hXxwh/osjmgSt7uXiw9/7P0N4T83KGoxbz7AiajgRh 7GIBwEuhfOwgH7RupgFH6TnHdpVGpvW/JNJbrmdCEvtrhZFf2hPrMlf3KIboGzrHrFgXCy dPht/4tF8CRYbTmSeGhf8flMlvNOwspNQzOPK6jSrIwNn5QE20+VwMfIAJ100w== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1638820057; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=EOvvNprlG5GwmrdgOaCiGQ5RXb9YNOEkd1h2YGtQ4t598Rfg3ca794PxnFe15BFqFY9N5K EJCgwu6TVRb9IDnJiNoAPTp4aIuaPj+HBxJbWwHoHYdeJpWd6OZU8RlE0zPmVaurJS3y0d l4Gb4/j/OxIjnCj8ZgxsvrCGfRAJ/PJGoW5U2I9XqL8ZNn+dcZEcMwq/f5pvEIuLVHkQof +fHS/ws+zurQcGrqfFpYgRaCfArdZYYQrvfWvV8WmUQ3mIZgINlWAaoaFbqVejhsMWya9H bFxVy/Nd8jo9zOAw4W9UApIeJ8sxiZciqc2A9NpbJMkkROrkH0h57k1Sw8Z1Pw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=N6nyV4tS; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.14 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=N6nyV4tS; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: DABFB2DEE2 X-Spam-Score: -3.14 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 603OI6Ym9K1Z --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Russell, > To my esteemed colleague, I have a few comments for your comments on > my comments. ;] Lovely. I happen to have one or two remarks on your comments^{2} :P > I=E2=80=99m all for the idea of tightening up documentation to make Org a= more > polished product. The issue is when the justification for that effort > is interoperability with tools outside Emacs. I think this is always a good thing. Regarding the motivation, I=E2=80=99m = not sure how crucial it is. The idea I have had and am yet to articulate (hopefully I=E2= =80=99ll sit down and do so this week) is originally motivated by considerations for peo= ple who want to make tools that work with Org, but upon reflection I think has broader benefits. I think the framing is also rather important here, not changing Org to fit other tools, but making it easier for other tools to sh= ape themselves to be interoperable with org-mode =E2=80=94 which I see as the c= rux of this topic. > My goal is to remind everyone that maintainer and coder time is a > scarce resource, and I=E2=80=99m very protective of asking them to commit= to > anything. An indirect commitment can still feel like a commitment, > even if it=E2=80=99s only implied by popular opinion and not agreed to. It=E2=80=99s always nice to see you advocating for consideration of maintai= ners and contributors free time. With this specific topic though, given that we have= one maintainer/significant contributor (Ihor) asking for feeback on proposed ch= anges w/ motivation and another one (me) very interested in it , I=E2=80=99m not = sure that this concern is particularly relevant. All the best, Timothy --=-=-=--