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Sat, 16 Mar 2024 12:35:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rlSJ6-0000Ut-RE; Sat, 16 Mar 2024 07:34:32 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rlSIh-0000OH-SC for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2024 07:34:09 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rlSId-0004YU-Go for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2024 07:34:07 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A053240101 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 2024 12:34:01 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1710588841; bh=P+b0+HJcsWTnCUG6gi1hqz2+LHbdrPC+NFzNsXqjviI=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type: From; b=os1zaMkq5lTRj7XECHnCoxkXwnpJxm6Nx/+2bFrxGPL5P7VJZ40O1MDH/nc5GQ4qn 3xyKG/bJDbfw2QPYbe6KkqxCAlsG++0un+Q8HTdOJcEfZq9ZpKqsNQIssOIoIKEip6 t+3M5zw+w8SWttlZ75A73WCHTBXxc5hPsX2EpK3InHmHLdbKQe6noCVoN333oKRibR n4qMK84dzgxEwAVOy0mvwZGulIkzqg558xJ5oK1nw/f6KmhO0NyZ6YdYydnjfQ65eb uEXBwUsJEZ8i1OehgDUC/n1be8dZC4kR6Wt3dULCTohRNrpnDy4lvHqHvq40pR9rU6 Xm/7p1ichxqEQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4TxfCD0XFkz6txq; Sat, 16 Mar 2024 12:33:59 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Rudi C Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Principled Handling of Breaking Changes In-Reply-To: References: <87plvuiiov.fsf@localhost> Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 11:33:56 +0000 Message-ID: <87h6h6if6j.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Scanner: mx10.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.49 X-Spam-Score: -9.49 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 9E8FE6D1E1 X-TUID: TASjjUcpB0pU Rudi C writes: >> what other breaking changes caused problems for you? > > I remember these three: > > - `tab-width` > - fontification in example blocks ( > https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git/commit/?id=9daad41cc) > - `org-fold-core-style` changing to `text-properties` (from `overlays`) > broke custom code I had for coloring links. I think I need to clarify a bit about how we consider changes in Org mode. - We rarely touch default values in user customization - same as what Emacs does. Every time we do go ahead with changing customization defaults, we consider such a change very carefully. Changing tab-width has a strong justification - we are aiming to stabilize Org mode markup and register it officially. So, all aspects of Org markup will eventually be decoupled from Emacs customization. (the other question is whether we can avoid co-lateral damage; let's discuss it in the other thread) - We reserve the right to change internal implementation details of Org mode at will. Like the details how folding is implemented. Any other policy would make it impossible to add new and improve existing features of Org mode. Emacs has the same policy. Yet, we take care to communicate major changes in the internals to users who might be relying upon implementation details. - We also reserve the right to alter undocumented features of Org mode. We do not exercise this right at will though - if we can keep some undocumented feature without too much effort, we do. Example block fontification was one of the undocumented features. As per the commit you linked to, we restored example block fontification and added a comment in the code to avoid future accidental breakage upon reporting. >> The very first section in https://orgmode.org/Changes.html lists >> breaking and important changes. > > I don't care about "important changes" though, I just want the breaking > changes ... I guess I should allocate the needed time for reading this > anyway. The exact name of the section is "Important announcements and breaking changes". By "important announcements", we really mean important - something that may need action. For example, changes in folding machinery where not breaking (they did not break any documented feature), but certainly important enough to bring to everyone's attention. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at