From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id gNiYE5Bpyl73CgAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 12:33:20 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id eCpsD5Bpyl6pSQAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 12:33:20 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34CB39400C3 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 12:33:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:34326 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jcpob-0005xj-S5 for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 24 May 2020 08:33:17 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35768) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jcpnF-0005Wv-Ue for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2020 08:31:54 -0400 Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.29]:49719) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jcpnE-0005Ya-QK for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2020 08:31:53 -0400 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAB2B5C008D for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 08:31:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 24 May 2020 08:31:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= references:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=fm3; bh=pBC+yZkQKio/OR3Go++HHMV3Xw e3bS63LhnCBGLk6M8=; b=qUvVylqoXVPlIyc1gPuuGF9sxH6lugkQkhJVLUuxSz TJdg6KQP7Kgdowh3vt9XqBBu2csGvT8NsDxmPutJnlr1yC+JdvQcxk2X/4b3AIyw v+GbqbbEAfFP9WukzsOd1JnRudbO0x6VN/+LbLIc/plTidOyeaTqOPaCzovP38GM WKDg578DyAixR0raMzo/gmMUdzeA5223wLgJDdFpEhZsnkOGKRpkyhVbkuD8i4iQ sbRSQHz9b+w6rYESZQI4H7bDD3XS5DSzdzQA2sOZ+FIfDSwwZpn39E/eMIYILcns 19q2rD8GLUkl/cum+V+iiSCeiSNY5j3aiEIU9SabEHrA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=pBC+yZ kQKio/OR3Go++HHMV3Xwe3bS63LhnCBGLk6M8=; b=O2GIp3XFv6ZgPNpIxWFJvQ W4+FhDJ5AT4+ohnbZPB/dWBfO+GG5SYky7bdqjcA3H4oTeath4Nz3j52KhJ1F94q MUUjtM+CpdRq/89r2ZPABe6cZwoAsuDbvEujyjSlOOPKY71H7ITu5VC5uFA7wwhO ynUpKhWTf5vvROVVyEQtsJKpgrV6EZgmfXH9gHLBhAOg1+RG0dQfrCfIn2Cg4CFD gtitRNl2ssxhzkGXXSokUj7WXP+lcDI3M8d+giQqEBMN4ilc0B93Enww/lIi5PAT 7waxj+DdbVQNL98c5JwdK7hSiujJfN2pSurpDzByGsGvN95LpPY534glZIPnPOCQ == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedruddukedghedvucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpehffgfhvffujgffkfggtgesthdtre dttdertdenucfhrhhomheplfhoohhsthcumfhrvghmvghrshcuoehjohhoshhtkhhrvghm vghrshesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdhfmheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnheptedvvedvgfefte fftdduuefgtdevjeeujeethfdtfeekteffleeuhfeltedvfeegnecuffhomhgrihhnpehg nhhurdhorhhgnecukfhppeelhedrledtrddvtddurdeivdenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiii gvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehjohhoshhtkhhrvghmvghrshesfhgr shhtmhgrihhlrdhfmh X-ME-Proxy: Received: from Swift.fastmail.com (ip5f5ac93e.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de [95.90.201.62]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 44F4F3280060 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 08:31:50 -0400 (EDT) References: <87lflh90f5.fsf@bzg.fr> <87y2ph4mq0.fsf@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.4.6; emacs 27.0.91 From: Joost Kremers To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Replace Org's C-TAB with C-M-TAB - objection? In-reply-to: <87y2ph4mq0.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 14:31:47 +0200 Message-ID: <87ftbpo6oc.fsf@fastmail.fm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.29; envelope-from=joostkremers@fastmail.fm; helo=out5-smtp.messagingengine.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/24 08:31:50 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: scn0 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=fastmail.fm header.s=fm3 header.b=qUvVylqo; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=O2GIp3XF; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=fastmail.fm; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.79 X-TUID: wLWG1wYDzPpY On Sun, May 24 2020, stardiviner wrote: > Bastien writes: >> C-TAB in Org is bound to `org-force-cycle-archived' to allow to >> cycle >> through archived subtrees. >> >> In the Emacs tab-bar mode, it is now bound to `tab-next', which >> needs >> to work globally. >> >> So Org's binding and tab-bar's one are in conflict, as reported >> here: >> https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=41325 >> >> I suggest binding `org-force-cycle-archived' to C-M-TAB: any >> objection? >> >> Thanks, > > I object this change. Emacs tab-bar is not enabled by default. > When conflict, > user can customize keybinding. I don't think it's very necessary > to change. I would support the change, since both Org mode and tab-bar-mode are part of core Emacs and I doubt it'll be clear to new users coming to Emacs why these conflicting key bindings exist. Instead, they'll be annoyed that they cannot C-TAB out of the Org buffer and their impression of Emacs (not just Org mode or tab-bar-mode) will suffer. Ever more so because it's probably not immediately obvious to new users how C-TAB is different from just TAB: they both open the subtree at point. I've been using C-TAB for a long time to switch buffers (albeit not with tab-bar-mode), and it's always annoying when some mode usurps (from my perspective) this keybinding. Now, I'm familiar with Emacs and the relative independence and freedom that individual packages have, plus C-TAB is a personal keybinding, so I know this sort of thing may happen and I know how to resolve it. For a new user, that won't be so obvious. For them, this will simply look like a badly designed UI. So I think the general argument for habit-breaking UI changes applies: it creates a more consistent UI, which means it's easier on new users and more in line with what they expect. For existing users that want the old behaviour back, it's a simple configuration in their init.el. -- Joost Kremers Life has its moments