From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id kLbQJLDIDWBeZQAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 19:21:20 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id 0BWLILDIDWBwIgAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 19:21:20 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F19AD940149 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 19:21:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:36380 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l3kwo-0005Kp-VC for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 14:21:18 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59086) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l3kvk-0005KA-8a for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 14:20:14 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:38810) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l3kvg-00070v-6s for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 14:20:11 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D776B160060 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 20:20:02 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1611516002; bh=Lbk5unrR7T5QPVrZc/hdRl/oej0MS4XIEzLkfubNh20=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=YNv/aiQ9dDNU4fmRkPMWt9G59lNpRsC6gp5vuHwACnU/Pab4aqw2GlPl/6XBAcTvq cctXdtb4VaN6pEvnG8KQksywnZSx1p/TzW/hf4xiU9p2VhR41g17xbY5QEfxjfG3lZ tlBFqteINZxgKK40QYHimaBDWQbRGLQzPSlrs1ryIL3Trxq2zlMOrSNxM48JwLgvRK szY0g9dZClayNPs2p845yG7EOT2cL6zV58QZb+FaJQryYOmOvJ1hoUgmIVR4ERRpsZ CNoAWzwkPjBue7HWBq8IS7xdw9Z+QLZdtcz9vY6dZjXGj19VNqzSiCazJwKpYsZvSQ xGYGLY7KurpBQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4DP2rL15KQz6tmS; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 20:20:01 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Juan_Manuel_Mac=C3=ADas?= To: Gustavo Barros Subject: Re: [Tip] Export a bibliography to HTML with bibLaTeX and make4ht References: <87wnw3oqz1.fsf@posteo.net> <87ft2qlg66.fsf@gmail.com> <87eeialcay.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2021 20:20:01 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87eeialcay.fsf@gmail.com> (Gustavo Barros's message of "Sun, 24 Jan 2021 10:00:37 -0300") Message-ID: <87ft2q87mm.fsf@posteo.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=maciaschain@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: orgmode Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.05 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b="YNv/aiQ9"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: F19AD940149 X-Spam-Score: -3.05 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: OquxYA/2lIYt Hi Gustavo, Thank you for your interesting comments. Gustavo Barros writes: > On Sun, 24 Jan 2021 at 08:37, Gustavo Barros > wrote: > >> It should handle two limitations of your procedure, which >> are: getting the bibliography with the entries actually cited in the >> document and citation callouts. The first one is easy to handle in >> your >> current approach by means of any of the multiple alternatives to >> generate a bib file with only the cited entries. The second one, much >> harder, as far as I can see. > > Thinking this through: there is actually a third challenge to the > approach, which is ensuring the relation of the citation callouts and=20 > the bibliography is correct. For example, if using a numeric or alpha > style, how to be sure the labels are the same in the citation and the=20 > bibliography. Even in other styles, such as author-year, if > disambiguation rules come into play (e.g. (Smith 1987a, Smith 1987b)),=20 > how to be sure the same rules are being applied by pandoc/CSL (on the > citations) and biblatex (in the bibliography). As far as I can tell,=20 > this will hang on sorting, something which biblatex is known to be > more capable than other tools, so that I would expect differences (at > least potentially). Styles such as verbose or author-title would > probably be safe, I guess. Have you given some thought about this? > If so, how are you handling the case? > I agree with what you comment here and in your previous message. In fact, I'm afraid this (humble) approach of mine is focused only on creating a mere list of references in HTML from a bib file, keeping the same bibliography styles that I have customized in bibLaTeX, but not on everything related to citations throughout the text and on the consistency between citations and bibliographies. I would say that my method is not a good starting point to implement a solution. The essential problem, of course, is that our customization is LaTeXcentric: it resides in LaTeX/bibLaTeX and not in Org. In my case, anyway, I had been using the TeX ecosystem almost exclusively for my work in typesetting and editorial design (I do not use DTP software, which is not intended to create books but magazines and newspapers), and Org Mode for writing and notes. But in recent years I have come to realize that a workflow based also on Org and Org-Publish is tremendously productive for me to manage the typesetting of a book, especially a complex book. Let's say now I also use Org as a high-level interface for LaTeX. I'm currently working on the /Hispanic Dictionary of Classical Tradition/ (/Diccionario Hisp=C3=A1nico de la Tradici=C3=B3n Cl=C3=A1sica/), a volume of multiple authorship and about 1200 pages. The method I raised in this thread has to do with this scenario, where each dictionary entry is accompanied by a bibliography. As the dictionary will have an online secondary version, I wanted to keep the same bibliography style that I had defined for bibLaTeX. I have not had the problem of the citations here, since the entries do not contain citations (bibliographies only). Otherwise, I think an emergency solution could be to export from Org to *.tex, and then generate the HTML from there using make4ht and another preamble /ad hoc/, better than using a mixed csl/bibLaTeX method which, as you say, can result in many inconsistencies. Long ago I tended to be more in favor of the idea that a single source-text should produce multiple identical or interchangeable formats. I really still believe it with enthusiasm and I have not completely lost faith in such a utopia ;-) But nuances are necessary and it must be accepted that each format has its idiosyncrasies and limitations. For example, TeX and what TeX produces is at a level (let's say) higher than what can be achieved through HTML/CSS, odt, epub... It is not only a question of typographic refinement or fancy appearance (typical of TeX), but also (in my opinion) of the book typography itself as= a form of expression. The other formats will often lag behind TeX, and this must be taken into account when exporting, pros and cons, etc. On the other hand, bibLaTeX is powerful and highly customizable, but sadly depends on LaTeX... Regards, Juan Manuel=20 > Best, > Gustavo. >