From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id CXWCJC6GUmO6MwAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2022 13:44:46 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id mNH6Ii6GUmNPwwAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2022 13:44:46 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 527753D844 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2022 13:44:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1olqSD-00021r-2Q for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 21 Oct 2022 07:44:45 -0400 Received: from [::1] (helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1olqPD-0007RZ-FN for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 21 Oct 2022 07:41:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1olqOV-0007IR-O3 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 21 Oct 2022 07:40:58 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1olqOT-0002Vo-Nd for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 21 Oct 2022 07:40:55 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 229D8240103 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2022 13:40:49 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1666352450; bh=vP+RJGI0nN+mA58XY2yXPESkyn/IZE4jEu26kGrnzG4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=qQNd5KDOCiP68n0y8VNQI3K8E0PnH1Qpaq1woQW9Xva2QA6o9cIXeKrhuDl3yl0+B eKIWCpPAE4FVuvjgN19KzDviLg87QS8hRCLXqzD0RCbC4yxawpKwOgMQxKid6Lkhc5 nQ6eh3QXmxKiKigLe/oSdO8e4iEJLPMpXW2Rbne1qboVyarn62dTy8OWe3rK5eu7bT P/EetufAs6u7jwkR/+ZuPtqV4XQJJOXErHS2B+TatbrbleATE/0x3DCBtS0YkbOs7c DRqgsFK+465RtEPVxCksfGomsaxpZw9Cj0DksTvq4HkuAp9V9t8guWrmZ4p7Iljb0+ MMhADsrSZn9Bg== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Mv2bK3gvgz6tnW; Fri, 21 Oct 2022 13:40:44 +0200 (CEST) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Karl Voit Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Org-mode syntax as a tool-independent MIME type (was: Shower thought: submit an IETF RFC to register Org as a MIME type) In-Reply-To: <2022-10-17T22-36-38@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> References: <871rjhha8t.fsf@gmail.com> <5f5325db.1c69fb81.53d7d.5b93@mx.google.com> <87pn70ai0t.fsf@gnu.org> <87y2log45r.fsf@gmail.com> <87sgbgg9r0.fsf@gmail.com> <2022-10-17T22-36-38@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2022 11:41:30 +0000 Message-ID: <87fsfh4d5h.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1666352686; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=EWcgytgEDS2iArVuDsmkoC1hMDwoRrJOZkvdRNKL0EI=; b=njDHk5gkqQ5vCsnEeezLGAaAQMXxGp/fTz5fSV8vJF8+hF1d8uRpvB4IgKd5qqay/e0vhF hKCor7wmpv81R/KUTYh8SE9fBoo7bbvbU/ver95HznQYzkS+wtVwojxitXvOAakvpaiaKu LZBDcBqXNmDnBrHN6Nd+6Pz8n5+/VXByrbdZ4WOi+HGaY6V9qcO7ZRp2KGbGqz1WkF+oau WAlGsZM3kI7jxxToOvqfAwT9oeZsNWoS7B2zqfAJ1sa9BI4LLLtvq5mxNBb91xCmSszSdD vDTBSAahjt9Oih0utGfIRWWaTV4BBI67kvfV03sCqf2qhZE8qT06Tl/H5lU0Jg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1666352686; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Bk3QnA/CQ/UmW8zKI7EFWMAUu+QWrZaAQdyFexAHiczP0MBtKYs3yFByF3bNpA0uGtLoMC fNA0M0MyEWM4ELg2ym1FqixGJ/Zgq73KJFsIdJ071JQEqWcBfycbkyIFdP4dymXzfWLmBL 4PS9Gs1xrm+0KaxdauiibHXnc6E1vRiOMoUnEZdpsZbflKpk9d3De56p4KAqnnGziYurV7 yWdQAD3bsK+O7AJOMvnoQuSKZywOhn2LhHSLBoBTf7JZkV8e7q7+6JrjZnvZK08sA6ZekQ Lal0DeODBf7kzLaZWJbWotCmwmAOSj4HVu4fS9fHb39AHHgl0AG4wti5TWGS8g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=qQNd5KDO; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.94 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=qQNd5KDO; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 527753D844 X-Spam-Score: -1.94 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: LHESTR+XA+B6 Karl Voit writes: > For reasons explained in my Orgdown-related articles[1] I would > propose to use this chance to introduce a different term for the > Org-mode lightweight markup language in contrast to the Org-mode > Elisp implementation in order to push the syntax in a tool-agnostic > way. We should not think only of GNU Emacs because there is a > rising number of tools that do support text files in Org-mode > syntax[2] which is also a huge advantage for users of GNU Emacs: > collaboration, public awareness of the syntax, more tool support, > ... I do not like the idea of using Orgdown term for MIME type. MIME type already imply syntax, not the implementation. I think that it will be better to keep "Org" term for MIME type and avoid too much confusion. The Emacs-independent description of the syntax is being worked on in https://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-syntax.html. > I proposed the term Orgdown for the Org-mode syntax and also > proposed various levels in order to provide sub-sets of Org-mode > syntax[3] that are realistic to implement with finite effort. Using > those OD-levels to come up with a formal definition (EBNF?) might > play perfectly well with different parameters of the MIME type[4]. I do understand and accept your idea about simplified syntax description. As we are going to need the syntax white-paper for MIME type registration anyway, we may as well define your syntax levels in that document. I envision a section in https://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-syntax.html that will define subsets syntax elements can be supported. The first step now if finalizing https://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-syntax.html. It would help if other Org users read through the document and try to spot what is missing, unclear, or inaccurate. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at