[babel] Future of Org-babel?

[babel] Future of Org-babel?

[Nathan Neff]

Guys,

Is there a project/TODO/Wish list for Org-babel?

I'd like to give a presentation on Org-babel at the Strange Loop
conference in St. Louis
in October.

http://strangeloop2010.com/

The Strange Loop conference attracted a lot of very smart people that
I think would
be interested in contributing to Org-babel, particularly because it's
a young project.

There's plenty more languages that Org-babel could support, so that's
one area that
I could mention needs help.

But, I'd like to point out some of the advanced/aim-for-the-sky ideas
that you guys have
for Org-babel -- that would really spark some interest in the crowd.

What would you say are the most aggressive / cool features that you're
considering for Org-babel?

Thanks,
--Nate

Re: [babel] Future of Org-babel?

[Xiao-Yong Jin]

On Wed, 5 May 2010 17:35:18 -0500, Nathan Neff wrote:

> Guys,
> Is there a project/TODO/Wish list for Org-babel?

> I'd like to give a presentation on Org-babel at the Strange Loop
> conference in St. Louis
> in October.

> http://strangeloop2010.com/

> The Strange Loop conference attracted a lot of very smart people that
> I think would
> be interested in contributing to Org-babel, particularly because it's
> a young project.

> There's plenty more languages that Org-babel could support, so that's
> one area that
> I could mention needs help.

> But, I'd like to point out some of the advanced/aim-for-the-sky ideas
> that you guys have
> for Org-babel -- that would really spark some interest in the crowd.

> What would you say are the most aggressive / cool features that you're
> considering for Org-babel?

I am thinking of something similar to the 'notebook'
interface in Mathematica.  We can present data, code and
analysis results in a consistent and structured way, thanks
to org-mode.  And in addition, we can use all kinds of
different languages that org-babel supports, automatically
generates tables and graphs on the fly as we execute
different code blocks.  This requires a clean and easy way
to propagating information through different languages in
org-babel.  In this sense, org-babel can be an advanced
interface of comint-mode, or even replace it.  Imagine
running several different inferior interpreters, like shell,
python, haskell, gnuplot, (i)maxima, octave and etc, but
variables can be shared between these processes, and all the
code and extra texts are stored in one org-mode file, which
is also the only file you have to work on.

This is my dream about org-babel.  Hope it comes true,
someday.

> Thanks,
> --Nate

Thanks,
Xiao-Yong

-- 
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Re: [babel] Future of Org-babel?

[Eric Schulte]

Hi Nathan,

Nathan Neff <nathan.neff@gmail.com> writes:

> Guys,
>
> Is there a project/TODO/Wish list for Org-babel?
>

Yes, see the babel development page [1] where we keep all pending TODOs
and BUGs for Org-babel.  It may be easier to view the underlying
Org-mode file -- development.org our development repository [2].

>
> I'd like to give a presentation on Org-babel at the Strange Loop
> conference in St. Louis
> in October.
>
> http://strangeloop2010.com/
>
> The Strange Loop conference attracted a lot of very smart people that
> I think would be interested in contributing to Org-babel, particularly
> because it's a young project.
>

That's great, the more the merrier.

>
> There's plenty more languages that Org-babel could support, so that's
> one area that I could mention needs help.
>

Certainly true.

>
> But, I'd like to point out some of the advanced/aim-for-the-sky ideas
> that you guys have for Org-babel -- that would really spark some
> interest in the crowd.
>
> What would you say are the most aggressive / cool features that you're
> considering for Org-babel?
>

The first things that come to mind would be allowing for processing of
Org-babel files from outside of Emacs.  It would be nice to provide
external commands which would allow for the tangling and/or execution of
code from Org-babel files.  I think this could ease the collaboration of
babel and non-babel users.  This has recently come up in relation to
Org-mode export in the form of external tools which approximate Org-mode
export allowing these processes to take place without 'Emacs --batch'
commands.  It would be a big task, but maybe Org-mode and Org-babel
could think about externalizing some of their exportation tasks.

This would be helped by the possible (hopeful) conversion of Emacs to
run on the Guile VM in the next year or two [3].

I'd love to hear more ideas from Org-babel users on this list, as you've
proven to be the most adept at driving Org-babel development.

Thanks for bringing this up -- Eric

>
> Thanks,
> --Nate
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Footnotes: 
[1]  http://eschulte.github.com/babel-dev/

[2]  http://github.com/eschulte/babel-dev

[3]  http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/123666

Re: [babel] Future of Org-babel?

[Eric Schulte]

Thanks for the idea!

Xiao-Yong Jin <xj2106@columbia.edu> writes:

[...]

> I am thinking of something similar to the 'notebook'
> interface in Mathematica.  We can present data, code and
> analysis results in a consistent and structured way, thanks
> to org-mode.

Yes, this is a great idea.  This has been voiced before in reference to
Sage[1] a python mathematical "notebook" which allows for interactive
editing.  I think of it as the interactive alternative to static code
blocks in Org-mode files, sort of a REPL for Org-babel.  I'm not sure
what the actual interface would look like or feel like, and I'd love to
hear suggestions.

> And in addition, we can use all kinds of different languages that
> org-babel supports, automatically generates tables and graphs on the
> fly as we execute different code blocks.  This requires a clean and
> easy way to propagating information through different languages in
> org-babel.

Org-babel does have a means for moving information and variables between
different languages (with emacs-lisp as the lowest common denominator).
I agree this would be exciting.

My pie-in-the-sky extension of this dream would be to have Org-babel
firmly ground in some virtual machine (maybe Guile's if Emacs is ported
to Guile), in such a way that the byte-code of the VM becomes the lowest
common denominator of all Org-babel languages.  This would allow for
seamless integration of languages which compile to run on the VM, and
for all other languages this would provide a great speed/efficiency
boost over Emacs Lisp.  I should disclaim that without having given this
much serious though I could be missing some critical road blocks.

Cheers -- Eric

> In this sense, org-babel can be an advanced interface of comint-mode,
> or even replace it.  Imagine running several different inferior
> interpreters, like shell, python, haskell, gnuplot, (i)maxima, octave
> and etc, but variables can be shared between these processes, and all
> the code and extra texts are stored in one org-mode file, which is
> also the only file you have to work on.
>
> This is my dream about org-babel.  Hope it comes true,
> someday.
>
>> Thanks,
>> --Nate
>
> Thanks,
> Xiao-Yong

Footnotes: 
[1]  http://www.sagemath.org/

Re: [babel] Future of Org-babel?

[Erik Iverson]

> My pie-in-the-sky extension of this dream would be to have Org-babel
> firmly ground in some virtual machine (maybe Guile's if Emacs is ported
> to Guile), in such a way that the byte-code of the VM becomes the lowest
> common denominator of all Org-babel languages.  This would allow for
> seamless integration of languages which compile to run on the VM, and
> for all other languages this would provide a great speed/efficiency
> boost over Emacs Lisp.  I should disclaim that without having given this
> much serious though I could be missing some critical road blocks.

Regardless, the technology will have to be called ".ORG". :)

Re: [babel] Future of Org-babel?

[Eric Schulte]

"Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes:

> Thanks for the idea!
>
> Xiao-Yong Jin <xj2106@columbia.edu> writes:
>
> [...]
>
>> I am thinking of something similar to the 'notebook'
>> interface in Mathematica.  We can present data, code and
>> analysis results in a consistent and structured way, thanks
>> to org-mode.
>
> Yes, this is a great idea.  This has been voiced before in reference to
> Sage[1] a python mathematical "notebook" which allows for interactive
> editing.  I think of it as the interactive alternative to static code
> blocks in Org-mode files, sort of a REPL for Org-babel.  I'm not sure
> what the actual interface would look like or feel like, and I'd love to
> hear suggestions.
>

I've created a page with some initial thoughts on a notebook interface
to Org-babel [1], any feedback is welcome -- Eric

Footnotes: 
[1]  http://eschulte.github.com/babel-dev/TODO-Org-babel-notebook.html