From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id GCeQDep9kWAtagEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 04 May 2021 19:01:30 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id 2GvHCOp9kWCsIAAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 04 May 2021 17:01:30 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8DC651BCCF for ; Tue, 4 May 2021 19:01:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:52126 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ldyQK-0006sa-N5 for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 04 May 2021 13:01:28 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41182) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ldyOn-0006qm-6n for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 04 May 2021 12:59:53 -0400 Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.197]:40153) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ldyOk-0000KA-LL for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 04 May 2021 12:59:52 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 185.131.40.67 Received: from localhost (40-67.ipv4.commingeshautdebit.fr [185.131.40.67]) (Authenticated sender: admin@nicolasgoaziou.fr) by relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EE9B21C0004; Tue, 4 May 2021 16:59:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Nicolas Goaziou To: "Bruce D'Arcus" Subject: Re: Notes about citations in Org (part 3) References: <8735v91926.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87pmyb80qk.fsf@gnu.org> <87sg34udy6.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <87czu77ohl.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87v97y7sie.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87bl9qaktw.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <87r1im7qgr.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87pmy68zjs.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <8735v27i8m.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <874kfi8pti.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> Mail-Followup-To: "Bruce D'Arcus" , Org Mode List Date: Tue, 04 May 2021 18:59:46 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Bruce D'Arcus's message of "Tue, 4 May 2021 11:54:26 -0400") Message-ID: <87eeem5ta5.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.70.183.197; envelope-from=mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr; helo=relay5-d.mail.gandi.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Org Mode List Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1620147689; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=NcK9nNK4Roy0tIWOD92bmLuEpOQtNKYEQ0aGncLgIEQ=; b=chQFdiu8Xi7PXC+bfsE/6jABEy5uUwIIBvXkV5/oyYOyBOnnU0DPPD/v45K8+0hpNeqtJz hVFba77Luo+bd4PbD+T+XgX+9LNuhyGKs3MAfmJ1OCih9oBYJFHpZb4ApLPt89Tz+js2H6 TdMfPvly7Z2oc6TG7+vuk2LkoO4uQf0fhcdOlM7jUQbushTnDK12fEjNpOlM03Noj0T3H0 ZmuqLhokSLfuC3NlmxF1CXkjCgS6TR5PtCtfA4ruZWx0xIJ7cX8lykOOAS99KyczJ8w+Li XgROFI9+ahKCkNyh3mz7+nw66iyTSxKMiVyvopFJUyWyVevtxRaLuxJ62eiIgg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1620147689; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=MBOF9YlQJTwG1lpHADDnVotjL5FnxVlavH7wG+FmVCpHWtbSvEBh4OmBHFqw9jLKv8vMrN RDs9JGuCf6cw0MfJGu8WDNkSqyjOWOwPVcrnH6FVs/YdvbRbuJZ0rI5+Kf8CC++UFoadcV aSQfskWqVk1givZ1syKO27oSWjGOH37iU56fZVsE8mx5FeS4dr6O0Yu0u48H8yl/n76flI jztOB2RglXqRzDoQZ10mWBYV4UOIEWguPUgy+Sb/QggJ7OS7mphS/2WC5isplU+bfKvngB tpPCh1n/R4d2fhVU53+MZMio1n5B75nr8p6wbF01CiURBHG/3shE13RnV5iCwg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.46 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 8DC651BCCF X-Spam-Score: -2.46 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: uPGavgyIkfAT "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: > On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 11:46 AM Eric S Fraga wrote: > >> I wonder whether it might be good to have a default LaTeX column as >> well, i.e. not natbib, a column that represents what LaTeX supports out >> of the box which is only the \cite{key} command. > > Makes sense to me. > > I guess the question at this stage is how to iterate this. > > I already added a change or two based on feedback from Joost, and it > does make sense to add a new column for latex. > > It seems easier to me to do it on the wiki, rather than post a new > version to the list every time, in part because it allows others to > edit it. > > Any thoughts Nicolas? Is the default \cite{key} command (without any other package) used? I'm not sure we should provide it since we are working towards more complete solutions. I'd like to give a shot at "oc-natbib.el" in a few hours. It may give an incentive to start out "oc-biblatex.el" (which is a bit harder). AFAIU, the idea is to use styles from you wiki. However, sub-styles are not mentioned. They could be "full" for the starred variants, "caps" for the capitalized ones, and "alt" for those without parenthesis, so one could write: [cite/text/alt/full/caps:...] (in any order) and obtain \Citealt*{...} I hope we can find a shortcut, but it doesn't matter for now. About sub-styles. The style is parsed as a string, so in the example above, (org-element-property :style citation-object) returns "text/alt/full/caps". Supporting sub-styles could be as simple as providing a function that returns a non-nil value if a given sub-style belongs to the style. e.g., (org-cite-has-substyle-p style "full") => t (org-cite-has-substyle-p style "author") => nil I.e, sub-styles are not formally supported in the parser, but tooling can take them into account. Of course, we can also support them fully, i.e. (org-element-property :style citation-object) returns a list of strings. It depends how simple the common single style case should be. To limit verbosity, we may want to stay (it's not mandatory) at one sub-level instead, and use single characters for processor specific variants, e.g., [cite//aC*:...] <-- default style with alt+full+caps If style are in common use, processors might as well declare them in `org-cite-register-processor' as a help for, e.g., functions inserting citations. Hmm. WDYT? Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou