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[2001:44b8:31f2:bb00:b2a4:98c2:11aa:1b70]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f19sm9951528pfv.76.2021.12.05.14.25.50 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 05 Dec 2021 14:25:51 -0800 (PST) References: <87tufnbj1w.fsf@localhost> <87sfv75s4r.fsf@posteo.net> <87o85vbb9a.fsf@localhost> <87y24zs40r.fsf@posteo.net> <87lf0zb6fq.fsf@localhost> <87ilw3419x.fsf@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.7.5; emacs 28.0.90 From: Tim Cross To: Bruce D'Arcus Subject: Re: Concrete suggestions to improve Org mode third-party integration :: an afterthought following Karl Voit's Orgdown proposal Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2021 09:20:22 +1100 In-reply-to: Message-ID: <87ee6q4rkk.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1036 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1036; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x1036.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -12 X-Spam_score: -1.3 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: org-mode-email Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1638743183; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=TE89Y8GuafjYautM0ADS8XUsYU93lWeiNW1J1mEtfJg=; b=sROKSPgWiMhNKyR1/xgZa13O8AHdaymubzrB0CNgSJrkLp2izCb9yjCE7OrWs1oQnJbhEa GHUnzyqqwOw8xtpueFtBQuwSnjpUdKDQNh77ci6jJstysI7W1tJOoPWw67GjK9K09VxL3x UYw7hiy2udocPhahThcBdkEusn6zyvlPsCkwJjeXF6qoH8SJ2eSmPJ0YzY6HhIPo6exRJ7 dCHGGj4NA5mryxU3xykjbhEYegFbA7a5Ar+4wqQarMp69abWyeV/gqWI/go8AyaPPuHJK8 iXxqYfHOtD1CW3ZKaS1eWIEdzdDKO8x93DuSECrlTs7JgnGSmDSfcGQ8rkFYfQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1638743183; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Pal83mqguiC6m2NsAMiQQDhU/IVONAzvW3MQVF3BX8TXtLHIODdJqzQpqzxaEoYAQs54zc Kepnd0iM5hvgZQ6YD+2aaihmVXU6yL03BMxYLdUe70ZbWmWz8u1jDanZUvxr9KiaBWkhBM d+DiK5nWY/5dkCN2jjT9rup84uW1B6khTNkx6KXydJCC2mosE/Br6YDOi93h1FJvLQS01V IVBLE8qlqiFSAJuJ7a2S+2seOjPCfPS+j/n2iYfCUE295O+Lzxxyvz0TxpxPat9lIFYEmM ijyF8lqOUq6VT0nWHzN0kf+9JBRbWi3aUfPTMAVkVAk4HI+YsePtMoXSqjNvoQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=PhAKraaz; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.14 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=PhAKraaz; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 4FC02318C4 X-Spam-Score: -4.14 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: qIIgPs/EVLWd "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: > On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 8:42 AM Tim Cross wrote: > >> I think your working off a false premise. Your view is that org mode >> should be available in other editors/software so that others can realise >> the power and benefits it provides. I can understand that position. >> >> However, the FSF position would be exactly the opposite. They would >> argue that orgmode is a powerful and flexible tool that is part of Emacs >> and if you want that power and flexibility, you need to use Emacs. > > Perhaps, but Emacs org users benefit from better support for org > documents outside of Emacs. > That may be true, but it is secondary to the main goal of the FSF. It isn't about benefit or convenience. It is about freedom. My guess is that the FSF position is likely to be something along the lines that while supporting/encouraging org mode in other, possibly non-free, software might be beneficial to Emacs users, it not only fails to promote the objectives of the FSF, it may actually work against it by decreasing the incentives to move away from a closed non-free solution to an open free one.