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Sat, 15 Jul 2023 11:45:35 -0600 References: <878rbib4su.fsf@gmail.com> <87v8emb2rx.fsf@lipklim.org> <87ilamf91l.fsf@tsdye.online> <87bkgdh9ud.fsf@localhost> User-agent: mu4e 1.6.10; emacs 27.1 From: "Thomas S. Dye" To: Ihor Radchenko Cc: "Thomas S. Dye" , Evgenii Klimov , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [Pre-PATCH v2] Add the capability to specify lexical scope in tangled files (was: Add new :lexical header argument) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2023 06:11:33 -1000 In-reply-to: <87bkgdh9ud.fsf@localhost> Message-ID: <87edl9f4qq.fsf@tsdye.online> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box2035.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - tsdye.online X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 50.113.33.148 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1qKjKp-0004W0-8c X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: cpe-50-113-33-148.hawaii.res.rr.com (poto-foou.tsdye.online) [50.113.33.148]:46552 X-Source-Auth: tsd@tsdye.online X-Email-Count: 3 X-Source-Cap: dHNkeWVvbmw7dHNkeWVvbmw7Ym94MjAzNS5ibHVlaG9zdC5jb20= X-Local-Domain: yes Received-SPF: pass client-ip=74.220.216.123; envelope-from=tsd@tsdye.online; helo=alt-proxy28.mail.unifiedlayer.com X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FROM_SUSPICIOUS_NTLD=0.499, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_PDS_OTHER_BAD_TLD=0.01, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Scanner: mx0.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.21 X-Spam-Score: -3.21 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 1E4CF69851 X-TUID: WRPC+qdMbgsm Ihor Radchenko writes: > "Thomas S. Dye" writes: > >>> Am I correct that language-specific header arguments are not >>> yet >>> covered >>> in the manual? I can't find any reference of "lexical" there. >> >> Yes, I believe so. Language-specific header arguments for many >> languages are documented at >> https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/index.html. >> Several languages are not documented there; in these cases the >> documentation is typically in the source code. > > It is actually slightly awkward that built-in babel backends are > not > documented in the manual, while, for example, export backends > are. > Agreed, but the two differ. With export, the goal is to produce code recognized as correct by the target software. With babel, the general goal is to provide language agnostic literate programming, which often produces something that meets standards of correctness not implemented in software. The idea of built-in babel backends, as distinct from contributed backends, or backends distributed by package archive is a function of maintenance burden and distribution channel, rather than something intrinsic to the backend itself and how it contributes to literate programming. > However, unless my memory deceives me, Bastien or Nicolas > previously > voiced against adding babel documentation. Though I cannot find > the > relevant discussion now and cannot recall the arguments (if > there was > such discussion at all). IIRC, there wasn't much discussion. The current situation doesn't seem ripe for documentation in the manual. Here are some potential hurdles: - there are likely too many built-in backends; - the built-in backends are a mixed bag--ob-lua seems half-finished to me, though I don't program in lua and struggled to set up the language to write the documentation stub on Worg; - nearly a dozen of the built-in babel backends lack documentation outside the source code (see https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/index.html#orgbc466c5); and - language support is inconsistent (see https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/lang-compat.html), which introduces complications for language agnostic literate programming. One way forward might distinguish between babel backends for GNU software and babel backends for non-GNU software, with the former built in, guaranteed to be consistent to some standard (which needs to be formulated), and documented in the manual and the latter moved to contrib or a package archive, with documentation (if any) on Worg. Others might have better ideas. All the best, Tom -- Thomas S. Dye https://tsdye.online/tsdye