From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id D7ICAom6sWE7fgEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 09:12:57 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id oMRxOIi6sWFCdgAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 08:12:56 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 951742FA37 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 09:12:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:37384 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvEXv-0001D7-R2 for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 03:12:55 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37444) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvEX8-0001C5-NE for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 03:12:06 -0500 Received: from mout.web.de ([217.72.192.78]:38443) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvEX6-00021J-Sj for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 03:12:06 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1639037518; bh=7PJApwTfPayTorhES0v9ygooPap2Zeg/ucEqG0wwTVY=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:References:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-reply-to; b=bzJo2MHMGzzRJSt0k9m2esQMzw+6/5uPC/tIvfGjjD+G8ZpIn8/gL5ixoEVpvK7jA WkHg/BaJ2kRdkGqRwFPvz8XozejafPO8mJOHSzXBv08KGNLrRmVtnmsjyoiHz6G7B0 z82bD93T42TT67FdILN7YKO7bEGmwKKiu1b0+8Hc= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from fluss ([80.136.27.113]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb106 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M7elj-1mtq1Q2fIj-008ASE; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 09:11:57 +0100 References: <87sfv75s4r.fsf@posteo.net> <87o85vbb9a.fsf@localhost> <87y24zs40r.fsf@posteo.net> <87lf0zb6fq.fsf@localhost> <87ilw3419x.fsf@gmail.com> <87o85v9la3.fsf@localhost> <87a6he4ngu.fsf@gmail.com> <87k0gf5hud.fsf@localhost> <87tufjt8r1.fsf@gmail.com> <87zgpbuktz.fsf@web.de> <87lf0uvq9s.fsf@web.de> <87pmq6u5sr.fsf@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.6.10; emacs 27.2 From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" To: Tim Cross Subject: Re: Concrete suggestions to improve Org mode third-party integration :: an afterthought following Karl Voit's Orgdown proposal Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2021 09:07:00 +0100 In-reply-to: <87pmq6u5sr.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87czm6urhv.fsf@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:lu9MU1aAiISK5t278SaWP50MBwDSNqUZwV5XKiIudXZa6WI8ylJ gVbP0MjMPDcUNptSVADbho90SXOdlsqOdDI36c/bTbaolia2XQlIvnQXwZ23wII1/kFs/ia aH2X7Dk3PnRX5u5wltRqVMK9T9jQwzPEmnvRa9SkAiqn4sgxpz2RGGDCkdEAcb/EKoF3s2N v7eO8fEn8WmzDuAE1ZhpA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:NgdHuoMSVGU=:3dcf/uwLL8GbDlFC0D6KnL 7YkchFcTlN041ufRgDwnlq+HxvWoPG3zDrbJSR5JSe9MOqqyT2exAzKTexhi9fmJWDn5qDDjJ ku0JcFvEHfNLoK4JRcsTPPIIXDfsWCGDLBt54UCWDV5kqSDImxneg19Bx7F4oSRHruKhuqW5H xp4bdnoRABlempiaBd/pGZmInYGEF+PYemc6qJ42vk97AqcLTLCihGN0X8ikBAsQ45F1YruQv 5tJpzNtIwPW9wENctpUpi/gP+7zHfTH2mCSS2RywYiRL5EzqFKxXD34kTFE1qxpQjQmJkajmt 6fmeu6ZuDxtsmFJ+/t0WDTqG2R+EWqkMh5GAS2jISUysaIdSPgaU9FCyVN+hoI1iHkK6Que/W U2gZGN3C5qpRih2XYY9JFUwV5atJHURo+F/aIBV0nLwX4KGPf6lhXHEYzeRMN7ZBaRGVlAM0e v5L3Gmj72i2vxsVgnBrGnsnRtneeTIPfT9ZSGReE6J5kZmOJWJKZ8ocVi0z46hwL7ybrsc3Ix zVjzZhufYctoi+vL+zWN1bTw5ZK3ieyEsdfIk9fkFMhqnB71OG6/LyVWTcDvNY7IRkNcI69C/ iJ5/Br9QPbocuo8vUdUikUd7okvqlpqHuoLr3F4fbGwyFBZDz8aVDffJbILXeYdThI1OD3rKf n9Lkbaf49g0lG+h6Wwiw+FM3lVzjmXVkXJ/Ku/YILTZNF1orZXLyGvyXNFLn0hjfRL8jmKY7b Hp0FMV4Tn9vQPupgnYhiY7B6yKtpJFC5q7n0HlasRryGWImVAxA/ji9wdcdV0n2LM+hE00KR3 p62mWVU1bnpUeZF+cuaCdRlMJ67YKxbw+vvH2JtuQ3Dy9vHXUs= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.72.192.78; envelope-from=arne_bab@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1639037576; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=7PJApwTfPayTorhES0v9ygooPap2Zeg/ucEqG0wwTVY=; b=WnSw6N6+0ktfiffuKKbrY9zwwm2UtoPjf99Y46LRhhVxeNYzoeHycO7EbqOLS5V4+MY2sA 8L0aRf+OzT/JRDLm6a5+jkcS4Y7dGpyMjVC0212E2nRluXdZnl5bniHJS4TXlGr2HbbXoc r1NrMlT1qknNbkwLj7WG2b5nBEWa/hVBAn5uHF4I+qf5vYGIwoowTwIUSrDDq3DirQSgO3 rr5WrB8wGzFW+hSnC3SjQ6zkBGMNmNGKZdQxnu4kKE59xIgvIOBbG5+mznIXGVS0nxqA29 G/l2yCUi87jBXlkLIre9H4SVNf/hFQV9RRh6aJ01sXYsdoMh95BgKlhMtmnp4Q== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1639037576; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Z1q5xODgmgh6qdctE4HDB8AICjOQ4WUeUZ37shZa2/KhNtOm25TmIXDv+0MgtJHika4ram KbiPKdziqtFBCjL2VuPyqkxvEUd9f0cBlxEqOhjs270Kz1OswA+YnSpknOJ4ltH1jSIF/6 R8YM9gYFhZzI1uiXIpAB1uUo+z4wO9LcZw8ox5uLU37nB9tApNT39l1dSqs+r626n69IZ1 L75gVss7X/++RMzSS0S9Ey+xak9YjNz3k7oNDDFfPUacBmid3Yx/Ot+fpXS+/j16R6Wcnw 8OqiKiwpSEjRAi3I4k5sYy+uR3PT/JPIaQb029aSdHMfTkXSgkSrQQsqqqUa7g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=web.de header.s=dbaedf251592 header.b=bzJo2MHM; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=web.de (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.05 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=web.de header.s=dbaedf251592 header.b=bzJo2MHM; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=web.de (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 951742FA37 X-Spam-Score: -3.05 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: Ez3nMJ86nRTT --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tim Cross writes: > What really doesn't help is to immediately jump to extremes and start > talking about making something volatile just because change is > mentioned. I am wording this so strongly because we currently have talk about creating more abstract org syntax. This is the situation in which the temptation to skip backwards compatibility is highest =E2=80=94 as is the cost of that, because not upda= ting will quickly not be an option (because dependencies will follow). In another situation I would be much more relaxed about this discussion, but when larger refactoring is on the table, it is important that backwards compatibility is high in the priorities. Best wishes, Arne =2D-=20 Unpolitisch sein hei=C3=9Ft politisch sein, ohne es zu merken. draketo.de --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJEBAEBCAAuFiEE801qEjXQSQPNItXAE++NRSQDw+sFAmGxukwQHGFybmVfYmFi QHdlYi5kZQAKCRAT741FJAPD6ysbD/sEIcmiqqeTTJ1/Qf0JX3cTIv/n3ejYoghc SiZayOoBFrAhlar0NvH7GMAkE5nbHTKCGco5z7FQxuhZE7JXAxiqeWfYivdAiyzk MdSCwc6fWJ85P7HigkJCYZTJqNHL62ug2guU0ZzcN9C4fGH/XRvIdvb/Oi375L97 AZNVnaFTgvpvpyHVABnH/gCWgBgoh/v5tcaXs6byEH0stNq+NPBeGw+FtLsGwAP7 ik4cisULjnf/yI6qaKOjxWAbOhpBXKURNY0d7TfEVtQ03zO+1F4TXhHlrAq7UF+K YAHA4vyZHaG4e5ZVneVYjouP1r0ILwmfpnhOUc3giOP/0uotCJUAbSwTZFIboeNA EhJHoLHO1/PgtbfMLM87j7FzjwBxSgpStzgbIZjX5hnqhhWKCVzPkB7BfQmHJ35d RTZhdFI55FT6hYew6qGEr8oMwq2tj0AaWnZjWNF7MZuoR6HUb3dDcVGOR/agy+oQ viLPlZ8Y3DD5afZhjT/rx+DeX89LH791uANAqAbhmjx2wlD8Gg8mlzb3z6QtcoI8 MKbVjHzVlpnxkcwiaQULRD/ut2vgcHNFu3FQYMkwMbOww7A5gKJDeEx/N6mXt5Rg OlFWvIJ1dvIaKBx28GmWNx8X5sDiLWY4aUXXRWkYWbFJ9G5NIB6PFVJrYUUb6D5k pAVbZdVu5YjEBAEBCAAuFiEE3Si95tmHXKvOSosd3M8NswvBBUgFAmGxukwQHGFy bmVfYmFiQHdlYi5kZQAKCRDczw2zC8EFSG+3A/0a+YQTJk6sSZQ5DZzs6q82mzLs cDudxxRCAtUHJ1wJ99rudIkjsG5RBQFi1xqWfypTgScDDL3coFcE2DSFqaSARGw3 3I3KdDxZXPt/++cE7ZTN3YV+cy41H40UBYkqNCx/P8A3Z0mtkM8J+//TDbPiK6OY irOFcgWQiJ6GSkr4qA== =5Pxg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--